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Pet classes vs. others (topic for GMs to be considered)

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  • Pet classes vs. others (topic for GMs to be considered)

    Dear GMs!

    About a year ago one of the GMs told that on discord that they want to balance classes, that no class should be able to solo s6. Well this works for the most classes expect like merc, slayer but even for that you need tons of gears... And here they comes, the petclasses. While those few classes needs trills ofbudget to be able to solo s6.. You can easily do it with a mediocrate MB which considered the weakest atm. I'm not saying with the same time since their dmg isn't that high with s5 uniq, but u can solo it in +23 on MB and you don't even need the new fancy, op pets...
    So are you okay with it? You stated something, yet working against it? And yea we all saw that OL guy with the dgs who is 1 mins sort in solo from the full pt world record...
    I don't think thats fair for the other classes at all, sure everybody can make a pet class, but what if my favorite is magus which is undertuned for years.
    It wouldn't be a complete fix, but for a start lets remove the 50% dmg reduction pet's get when pve... Would be a little something so the pet class with 800b budget won't be able to the the same thing as the 2-3 trill budget char( if they are merc/slayer).
    Also with these new pets the difference will be even higher as time goes by and i don't think everybody likes to be a pet class.. While they will get frustrated that the pet class with half of their stuff can do 2x more, because pets doesn't take dmg and even if they do they can outheal them easily..

    I hope you will also be able to see what a lot of players experiencing these days.
    Best regards^^

  • #2
    I agree with this 100% a rebalance needs to happen. It’s unreal how op these new pets will make pet classes and how now the classes who were weak before are now even weaker. It feels like a test server right Now more then the official server. I really hope to see the class balance continue it is much needed right now more than ever.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by UnderTheInfluence View Post
      Dear GMs!

      About a year ago one of the GMs told that on discord that they want to balance classes, that no class should be able to solo s6. Well this works for the most classes expect like merc, slayer but even for that you need tons of gears... And here they comes, the petclasses. While those few classes needs trills ofbudget to be able to solo s6.. You can easily do it with a mediocrate MB which considered the weakest atm. I'm not saying with the same time since their dmg isn't that high with s5 uniq, but u can solo it in +23 on MB and you don't even need the new fancy, op pets...
      So are you okay with it? You stated something, yet working against it? And yea we all saw that OL guy with the dgs who is 1 mins sort in solo from the full pt world record...
      I don't think thats fair for the other classes at all, sure everybody can make a pet class, but what if my favorite is magus which is undertuned for years.
      It wouldn't be a complete fix, but for a start lets remove the 50% dmg reduction pet's get when pve... Would be a little something so the pet class with 800b budget won't be able to the the same thing as the 2-3 trill budget char( if they are merc/slayer).
      Also with these new pets the difference will be even higher as time goes by and i don't think everybody likes to be a pet class.. While they will get frustrated that the pet class with half of their stuff can do 2x more, because pets doesn't take dmg and even if they do they can outheal them easily..

      I hope you will also be able to see what a lot of players experiencing these days.
      Best regards^^
      A Master Breeder in +23 (so the cost of +23 for both pets and the char), plus having to go through the troll of staging and being skipped over for all the reworks, just to kill slower than everyone else, but safely i think that is pretty darn fair. What you are suggesting like kicking the kid in the wheelchair because he has an easier time going up the ramp, even though everyone else gets up the stairs faster.

      This post makes me feel some kind of way lol.

      Comment


      • UnderTheInfluence
        UnderTheInfluence commented
        Editing a comment
        3x +23 still a lot cheaper than 24/25 full reviac full s6 belt set Pet's dmg reduction straight up unfair They don't take dmg + all the bonus reduc they can get from mb slave+gnoll buff makes then even more unkillable

    • #4
      I guess him forgot to mention that for the max power to be able to solo u need to have full army of slaves with equips and aswell staged dgs which makes it even more expensive than "average" solo player, not to mention that playing a petclass becomes sometimes pretty "one sided" and so u have to put more effort and energy to keep up playing "

      Comment


      • UnderTheInfluence
        UnderTheInfluence commented
        Editing a comment
        That's the thing! Pet classes max power is over the roof That's my ponit, that even a lower geared pet class can do the hardest dungeon which never ment to be soloed... yet there is a guy who does it in 2:40 completly solo (Word record is 1:37 for a full pt tho) And as u said he doesn't even reached max power cause dgs can be staged more... plus this was before the new pets.. Normal classes has a pleatu that they can reach and no further than that while pet classes can reach that and beat that pleatu on the long run.. if u have founds...You can ma out ur normal char and always be weaker than the petclass with lets say 2x s1 190 dg in +24 full s6 belts while in money they are at about same lvl but even if u don't just make an ol give him s5 uniq tanks +23 spears and there you go u are able to solo s6. 3x +23 stuff even if the boots on pet class is +25 is cheaper than any other class 24/25 reviac and most of those classes can't make the solo s6...

      • PetGuy
        PetGuy commented
        Editing a comment
        you are really downplaying the gear you need on mb its not just 3 weapons and naked pets lol also if they remove the reduciton they would have to give alot to compensate because right now outside of potency and recently holy link mb doesnt really offer much else to pets most of the skill tree is outdated with small flat stat buffs cause they never got their rework if they do it without changing anything you'll just get more ols and to nerf ols right now would be a nerf to slayers so meh

    • #5
      A Cardinal with a good helmet and snow slide gears can also solo S6 DD easly. they can spam snow slide (aoe damage + aoe seal). This way they can spam aoe after aoe whilst never getting hit. Not even in the boss room. It's crazy.

      I think it's nice that pet classes got a boost with the new pets and the added equipment slots on pets and skill changes. I'm just a bit dissapointed that magus is still the weakest class in the game. Largly because aoe damage is so much stronger in rappelz then single target damage. (You only need to look at the leaderboard to see proof of it). http://forum.webzen.com/forum/en/rap...-on-popularity
      It's also sad that we don't get any skill that we can level up as we get a higher job level unlike most classes: http://forum.webzen.com/forum/en/rap...end-game-skill

      Comment


      • UnderTheInfluence
        UnderTheInfluence commented
        Editing a comment
        GMs stated that spell will get reworked so pointless conversation. It's just matter of time.

    • #6
      With 2.5T, I can build a slayer or merc that can solo S6 in under 7 minutes. For a petclass to beat that time, it will need 2xs1 DGs, 3x+25 spears, +25 boots. Well over 3t.

      The potential for pet classes is higher than non-pet classes, but it needs more money to reach the same level, and double the money to perform far better. The 2.47 min solo video, with reviac prices, costs over 5T.

      I agree that it could use toning down. Especially overlord. But they should also do something to lower the prices, e.g. more frequent tpro sales. Otherwise pet classes would fall back into oblivion or remain for the extremely rich.

      I would also question the urgency being made in this thread. There are only 2 or 3 people able to reach this level. Also, is it really a big deal that they can perform better by 2 or 3 minutes? Bringing up the other classes (BM, Cardi, magus) is more important than nerfing them. Nerfing is much harder than boosting, so the focus shouldn't be on that
      My youtube channel

      Comment


      • Anto
        Anto commented
        Editing a comment
        The Dmg reduction from Def Mastery is one of the main reasons pet classes mainly OL can do s6 so easily. They need to scale back DMastery a little bit and probably just make it a MB self buff. OL gets an unreal amount of p Atk on these new pets. Like Under is trying to say you can’t have both high damage and be able to tank end game content. It’s like if you gave WK 80% damage reduction and 1m hp. Everyone on the server would be playing WK even know WK is already op and a lot of players play it even now. This game is turning into a pay to win single player game for a few classes and the rest of the classes left in the dust. We 100% need more rebalance for a lot of the classes let’s stop making this game a 2-3 classes game. All the classes could be fun and useful they just need some love 😊

      • Hitsuyga
        Hitsuyga commented
        Editing a comment
        I fully agree that def master should be changed. That way, a pet will have a defined role (cg for tank, hector for dd etc), instead of each being their own one man army.

        Idk about new pets. I haven't played really since their release, so I'll take your word for it.

        But here's something I discovered when I went cardi a few months back. S6 farming is overrated. I'd much rather stay in s4 and farm 10+ essence and have frequent belt drops than s6.

        So while your premise is correct - they do outperform other classes, i still go back to 'So what?'. Until there's a new epic introduced, its not really a problem worth dealing with.

      • UnderTheInfluence
        UnderTheInfluence commented
        Editing a comment
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_xn4DZUuRE Well that's what i was talking about kinda Me and my friend playing not so bad classes atm. He is a merc and i play vm invested about 2-2,5 trills/ person in our chars and he beats our time solo.. I have nothing else to add, if this isn'tt proof than nothing is (reviac dies under 10sec is my fav part)

    • #7
      Pet classes aren't designed to be strictly one role they are mix of warrior and mage classes that could be dd/tank/support depending on their pet choice. However as the time proggressed pet roles became not that important with the soul pets as they can pretty much do the both sides rather equally thus pet classes forgot all mage dd/support and none pet class would use healer pet slave as pet dmg is not that amazing with them. With the release of the king of all pets the dg some pet classes were able to achieve amaizingly optimazed stats as i've heard. Yes there exist super op pet but that doesn't mean that everyone use it.
      As my experience goes i play mb using s3 unique tank and s5 basic tank with rather average +10-12 gears and my pets can survive farming roa if i manage not to pull too much at a time taking about 2-3 luna chip casts per mob. I can't survive solo at witches and bosses like hector and slaughterer or dd mobs demolish my pets when i try solo them . As i wanted to try at least dd1 i ended up making complete army of slaves with +5 cards and wooden helmets thanks to them im able to survive dd1 arguably but with rather slow ks id say pretty slow and if a mob manage to hit my char is pretty much gone in 2 hits even though im full vit build. Comparing my mb to none pet classes ike merc and vm that can pretty much 1 hit whole room of witches make me feel rly miserable as pet class even people that dont have +20+ gears also do alot better.
      As for the most part i play as slave support/heal for my ol partner since we usually play together. She uses s5 unique and s5 dt combo with +22 spears and +24 helmet n +22 spear on herself having all this + the slave army our records is doing dd4 within half an hour and her pets can't handle dd5 even with the so glorified def mastery of mine and the mb HOTs . In roa together we farm rather fast though it gets scary if aot of mobs come on us since both my mb and her ol die rly fast when hit by mob. Yeah it is true that pets are tankier than normal low geared none pet class dps but are they better dds id say no from mb point of view as i haven't feel it yet. Same goes for my ol friend her dt isn't that spectacular even with +22 weapon not at least compared to the +22 merces farming roa ect. Ofc i have no idea how do the people with s5 dg ect are performing as i have never been in pt with one nor will i have one myself. Thus having said if pet classes get nerfed cuz a new pet is too op or cuz once someone put trillions and trillions of rupee in them they had potential of getting stronger than other, pet classes with low gears like us would become even more useless as already no one would take us in real dd party.
      In conclusion someone with lots and lots of rupee would always be able to solo wether it is merc, slayer or whatever and ofc there some of the rly forgotten classes that wait for their potential remeke one day but no matter what real balance would never be achieved or at least im yet to see achieved in an mmo .

      Comment


      • #8
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_xn4DZUuRE I would like to leave this here as a proof Hope yall can see it before it gets removed, cuase it's too op

        Comment


        • UnderTheInfluence
          UnderTheInfluence commented
          Editing a comment
          Well me and a friend of mine did duo s6 (we calculated a bit, together around 7trill-ish investment) vs fang's about 3trill ish investment but lets say even 5trill just cause.. he does it , like at least 30sec faster than us in solo.. we are both over 1k cp and other stats aren't crap either yep clearly i know nothin about the game or am i just chose the wrong class? (: Btw not saying no gear investment at all, if you cloud read you clearly have figured it out but they perform a whole lot better even out of less investment as i just explained.. but if u don't believe check his formal slayer vid(5:50) vs 3:50 about same money investment

        • Anto
          Anto commented
          Editing a comment
          why can a single class spending 2.5tril do as much damage as maybe 4-6 classes spending 1-1.5tril each depending on that class. Yeah OL you still need to invest but its power limit is so much higher than pretty much all other classes right Now. That if you do have the money you will be miles ahead of all other classes. Just my thoughts on how classes are balanced right cause I think if a magus invested 2.5tril it wouldn’t be any where near the dmg put out or tankyness OL is 🤷*♂️

        • UnderTheInfluence
          UnderTheInfluence commented
          Editing a comment
          That's exactly what i meant to say! <3

      • #9
        Must be opposite land where vm slayers and mercs have any thing to complain about lol also i noticed how my response about dark strike was ignored lol using ol as an example to nerf mb is bad itself also posting a vid of a ol with s5 slaughter and s1 hector to prove that pet classes with less gear do better makes no damn sense lol the ol may be new but the investment in the char isnt small watch the video beyond just reading the title look at when he opens his creature form https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_xn4DZUuR
        Last edited by PetGuy; 04-08-20, 12:15 PM.

        Comment


        • UnderTheInfluence
          UnderTheInfluence commented
          Editing a comment
          Haven't said a thing about mb nerf tho pet's dmg reduction itself is too damm high makes them able to perform a lot better with fairly lower gears, because their pets can tank where same low geared any other class can't

      • #10
        Would u just stop whinning about basically anything? Just be happy that something finally works for a while, when they start messing ut again it wil fk up all again and gaame will become unplayable for everyone.. most classess are okay and playable, and enjoyable, if u like playing ol go play ol, if u play mb or bm play them.. whats the point of whinning.. if u have 4 trills to invest go for it and stop crying.. if u cant afford and u are greedy to put for a cash shop, shout up and stick your comments somewhere.. any class can do vasically anything, just keep trying and while u enjoy it dont complain.. i got ol aswell and can do s6 solo (with my toons) but i dont really enjoy doing it cuz not like the devildome at all.. all the buggy doors, pillars, stucked and bugged mobs around.. go play hc roa now, exps are fair there aswell, and u can do that with any class.. tbh i rather join party with my oracle or slayer, merc, cardi vm than with my ol simply because they are much more fun to play.. and if u look around, most classess can do solo even s6 if u know how.. they might not break the world record, but with these new pets everytime the meta is further.. the new dungeon is hopefully on the horizon, i hope for something without doors and teleports and maybe it can be instanced so there will be plenty of space for soloers as well as for full partys.. if u so much after sololing s6 dd go get yourself moving, do the leveling invest into pets gears or whatever..u can solo it with vm, corr, ol, slayer, mb, bm, champ, cardi, wkh, merc, temp.. no point to name all.. do 4 hour runs and get 0 droops then u realize its not about sololing s6.. and crying on forums..hopefully this conversation is over "

        Comment


        • UnderTheInfluence
          UnderTheInfluence commented
          Editing a comment
          You're cleary missing the point of the whole conversation :'D I suggest a retry Btw, I tried +24 reviac magus, it can't solo s6, just saying
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