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Epic 9.6 Wave 2 Class Balance Feedback.

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  • #16
    Hi there, I play War Kahuna on Lamia, PVE French server.

    I absolutely love the changes to huge volcanic eruption, rain of the spirits, and thunderstorm slayer. Enchanted slash as an aoe with a 10 sec cooldown is also pretty interesting and more useful overall than its older version. I can now switch between my +22 axe and +21 staff and feel like a real mage hybrid (I'm lvl 174, btw, so I cannot talk about devildom as I only have experience in devildom with my Oracle). Huge rock fall also has its uses now, and shuddering flame is pretty powerful too, but you got to be careful with when you use it. Master support of gust now also has the same duration as the battle kahuna support of gust, which also allows you to buff another player, which is great. I also think Leviathan's torrent damage makes the skill useful now.

    I agree with the nerf to the recklenesses, as I think it was too powerful. They were meant to be ''oh sh..'' buttons for extra power or damage reduction anyway.

    What I find still needs work is possibly the cooldown of chainsickle wind and crystalizing water spheres, for single target skills, the cooldown is pretty long. I generally only use chainsickle wind for the debuff on bosses. The damage is alright since I think its main purpose is the debuff itself. About the water spheres, I generally don't use that skill unless I want to giggle. Blasting rock cut does waaay more damage and is much more effective if I want to stun.

    Scorching flame is, in my humble opinion, only useful to pull on war kahuna. It does way more damage on magus (and it should do more damage on magus) but in the state rappelz is in, a DoT ticking on a 3 seconds interval isn't very effective because most mobs die in 1-2 seconds.

    Restoring purified water is alright, but its card skill needs to be updated with % hp instead of a fixed value. Weapon enchants should all be interesting. Only earth is worth it right now. Fire shield damage reduction doesn't seem to work.

    Overall, I think a very good job was done with War Kahuna, and I am planning the main the class again.

    On a side note, I haven't tested Magus changes, another class I like to play sometimes, but the nerf to their healing gust was too harsh in my opinion. The skill doesn't justify using a TP point anymore. Spirit of restoration is also pretty useless and essence of life has a 5 minutes cooldown if I remember correctly. I can't speak about their damage output though.
    HolyCoffee, Oracle 175
    Leprof, Kahuna 178


    • #17
      Corr changes have been nice but a little more is needed.

      DoTs such as Corruption and Putrefy need their damage intervals changed to 1 second instead of 3.

      DoTs need some damage increases.

      Soul Plague should be able to hit up to 3 targets.

      Corpse Mine needs to have it's damage increased and CD lowered.

      Corruption should be increase from 20 to 25-30 on skill level

      Shield of nightmare needs a duration boost or consider turning Shield and Strength of darkness into toggles.

      Master Breeder needs a few changes

      Glacial Whorl should have it's damage increased and made into an AoE much like Arctic Blast

      The TP rejuvenation skill should be a party wide m.atk based HoT much like Touch of the Goddess, maybe it can increase MP regen while active too like rapid miracles

      Critical Resonance should increase m.atk by a percentage and increase crit power.

      Mind Maul should lower p.def and m.def by a percentage

      Acid Spray needs it's damage increased and to be an AoE

      Bestial Cry is kind of an uninspiring toggle, what if you want to use mage pets or healing? It doesn't help them and since OL has the m.atk/p.atk acc buff (which is odd because Asura has an attack speed buff and Deva and acc buff so their skills should be swapped.) why not make it an increase to HP/MP m/p pierce of pets in group?

      Healing Wave needs it's heal increased and to bounce more or simply be a healing aoe like mass heal.

      The Vit/Int from the mage tree needs to be increased.

      Overlord could use a few minor adjustments to it's mage tree

      Electric Synergy should increase m.atk as well as int. There's no reason why Blood Synergy should increase p.atk yet electric not do the same, especially when Mage pets are underwhelming.

      Raze should also increase damage as well as lower cooldown. Armageddon is a fun skill but it lacks as a TP skill because of it's long CD and mediocre scaling.

      Corruption needs to be increase from 10 levels to 20.

      Flame Burn would be a great skill to add to OL.

      Aura of Halisha should be looked at, it's scaling seems to be rather weak.

      For simply aesthetic purposes would like to see Inferno fire arrow get the same look as fireball.

      Creature HP Extract should be a percentage like Transfer, both should have a slightly lower CD

      Bloody Arrow needs to have it's CD reduced to maybe 20-30 seconds with the card increasing dmg by a bigger amount and lowering Cd based on percentage.

      OL needs a passive that lowers m.def and p.def when attacking.
      Last edited by NikkiTikki; 05-05-19, 02:52 PM.


      • Brunohsantos
        Brunohsantos commented
        Editing a comment
        "Mage pets are underwhelming."
        MAGE PETS are completely useless

      • HirloRwin
        HirloRwin commented
        Editing a comment
        Kenshin, I'm talking about debuff, not buffs. And I disagree, asura have a lot of P&M def debuff

        So, since MB have acid spray from cleric and BM have Log split from fighter,
        OL should have Weakness Skin from mage.

      • NikkiTikki
        NikkiTikki commented
        Editing a comment
        Brunohsantos They are bad but there is a pet overhaul coming so might as well improve pet class mage tree now rather than having to wait when people start noticing how lackluster it is to the physical trees.

        Fainewedd AoE tagging is something a lot want besides improved mage skill damage. All TPs should be useful, All 3 TP skills on slayer are useful, MB and atm OL only has 1 that's really worth going into.

    • #18
      The comments earlier might not all be correct but. One thing that should be considered is people with dark purse should not be used as a standard for this class balance. If the bags were available again then that could be done. Nerf the bags remove them or put them back in cs then they can be considered in the balance. Rappelz is an mmo I can understand that but when you have allowed certain classes like vm/slayer to be op and solo s6. Reducing other classes this way makes it unbalanced. If you ask me I'd say everyone with +25 gears should be able to solo all content.

      As for this wave.
      merc: now the dps a merc puts out is almost on par with how it used to be before wildstream nerf. However survivability is still lower than many classes due to hector will not trigger as often for skill spammers. I like the options that merc has now. However defensive stance is still a pain in the ass to use as it cuts damage in half. Max target limit keeps merc damage at a reasonable level for aoe if no limit I would say it's rather op.

      WKahuna: damage has been boosted by a lot but survivability is still low

      Slayer back to solo s6

      mm: insane damage boost I got hit for 340k in pvp single hit.

      corr: pvp cc God still

      Vm: can drop anyone and everyone and can tank

      Temp: similar geared temp who actually spams skills and not just meleeing will hold aggro from anyone. Still temp should get a threat toggle this could be combined with godly protection and turned into a toggle.

      ol: still can solo s6, all pet classes seem decent

      Zerk got some of the damage boost with mm.

      Classes in the order of ability to tank(take or dodge hits and survive) should be: temp, merc, zerk,
      Bm, sin, mb, ol, then hunters and mages

      the next wave of class balance should look at hw fighter strider armor passive this is so outdated 130 pdef or so by maxing it it's a joke. this level makes it so mages have same defense as tanks so you cant expect them to not tank. sometimes mages are better to take hits and easier to heal thanks to magic skin.


      • #19
        Gonna go straight to the thing that haven't been mentioned.


        Angel's Deception = Needs a longer duration. The AoE potential on Oracle got greatly too many times. WIth a long cd Shining Buster, and long CD AoE its almost impossible to keep this buff at 3 stacks while healing a dp. Either increase durration same as you did with Mercenary Remorselessness or make it so that heals also trigger it.

        Oracle and Cardinal:

        Minor Shining Weapon and Minor Shining Armor = Turn these into useable active skills or passives. The rest of the classes can use all of their first and second job skills. These 2 skills are redundant and just a weaker version of 2 other buffs. Maybe turn them into passives; the Weapon one giving m acc/p acc by a small % and the Armor one p def and m def by a small %. As basically no player even tries to gets highly enhanced cards for these skills as they are useless, there should be no problem with these cards having no more use, (same thing that happened with 2 magus skills). Even if the % were +1% at max lvl, it would be by far better than what they are now. *Here's a random idea: toggles.


        Inner Light = The MP recovery is too low for what the class needs. It's a step in the right direction but this numbers needs to be increased to 200% instead of 20%. From all the mage classes, Cardinal has the most MP expensive skills. If played in a lackluster manner, the class can currently maintain it's MP, but when played at it's full capacity the MP simply isn't enough; specially if soloing. Oracle has countless of MP recovery benefits, 75% +200% mp recov ,-30% mp consumption, and mp scroll like tick. Magus has -30% MP consumption, lots of passives that aid int/wisdom/max mp overall, mp recovery toggle and low mp skills. All this without sacrificing any TP. That being said, it is only fair if the MP recovery passive on Cardinal get increased greatly.


        Double Shot = Why is it still possible to get 0.1 sec cd? This makes MM a 1 skill class still. Prey upon the weak increases overall damage and the damage on other skills got improved, but why even bother if you can just spam Double Shot and dish out insane amounts of damage still.

        Master Breeder:

        Organic Resistance + Inorganic Resistance + Spirit Resistance = Since they are mob type specific, they should add more resistance %. Would be nice if they were toggles instead. This way MB can't be used as slave to buff these higher buffs, and the MB can swap between resistances faster without hassle and having to rebuff each pet. This also avoid players from using PW gear to increase all 3 even more (something broken). MB would still have Defense Mastery as a buff for other player's pets.

        Or Better yet, turn them into toggles that add damage as a % to those type of mobs. It would require the MB to have knowledge of all mobs, an wouldn't render Defense Mastery useless for the MB player pets.

        Defense Mastery = Make it an AoE buff........
        Last edited by Kenshin; 01-05-19, 07:05 PM.


        • HirloRwin
          HirloRwin commented
          Editing a comment
          I llike the ideas about minor shining skills and resistance skills going toggles.

        • TH4TF4VSUM1
          TH4TF4VSUM1 commented
          Editing a comment
          i agree with the cardi ideas as well, i also would like to see somehow of an hp boost in the cardi, you are finally giving us the ability to dd but we are squishy even with added things in my gear(belt cards,vit tds,...ect.) i have more MP than HP otherwise these changes to our attk skills are great!

      • #20

        Critical Resonance - increase the likelihood of activation and duration for 3 minutes

        Glacial Whorl - increase damage and make AOE

        Acid Spray- Turn AOE like a poison shot and increase dot damage per second, maybe 200% M.ATK every second

        Mortal coil - increase M.ATK in +20% and INT in +50%

        Primal Concentration - increase VIT +20% and P.DEF +15%

        Holy link - increase creature crit power and crit rate by a % owner's crit power and crit rate


        trade Wave Cut skill for Thunderbolt Wind Cut.
        Last edited by Brunohsantos; 04-05-19, 12:04 AM.


        • #21
          I've really only played slayer since the changes were made so, here are my thoughts:

          Overall I like the changes, heading in a good direction for the class, and I think for the game as a whole.

          Apocalypse - Love that you made the skill go off quicker, definitely feels more useful now; however, I still feel the last hit of the animation takes too long to go off, and prevents you from auto attacking for too long to make sense in the majority of situations, except when you have like 5+ mobs around you. I'd like it to at least be a clear payoff with 3 mobs+ (if not two).

          Shadowforged plating - Like what some others have said, I like the skill as a whole. The main issue with it is that if you loose your death tyrant buff for example while u have it on (or something else causes skill level to change), the skill will temporarily shut off for a moment and then restart at the correct skill level, doesnt sound like a big issue, but this can drop you to about 20% hp in the middle of fighting mobs if ur not paying attention, which can mean insta death. So not a big fan of that.

          Aggro Maintenance in general - so one other problem I ran into while playing after the changes made - I like to keep shadowforged plating on even when not necessarily tanking, just so that I can take a hit or two, but it does generate some aggro, not enough to actually steal aggro from the main tank, which is fine - however - if the main tank fails to keep up aggro generation for a moment too long ALL mobs will instantly target the slayer, and the slayer will most assuredly die as we're still pretty squishy. Had this happen to me and it was not a fun experience. I think the way to combat this is to make changes to the skill Oblivion, so that you can use Shadowforged Plating in combination with having Oblivion on to negate the aggro generation effects, while keeping the increased survivability.

          In general I still feel the class's damage potential and tankyness is still a bit too low compared to others, but at least it is playable and can be enjoyed now so - overall good job.

          I'd also still like to see Shadowforged Plating and phase blades on equal footings in terms of reward when slotted onto gear, by way of a buff to Shadowforged Plating, I like giving people options in terms of build and playstyle.

          In terms of making daggers more viable, there's definitely opportunity to work there just by making envenom / poison mastery a more serious set of skills, right now all it gains from extra levels is mp consumption reduction which is a bit of a joke. I think my personal preference would be to see the slayer dagger build be bit tankier (via hp from matk from SFP) and with envenom being a major scaling damage contributor rather than just some flat addition as it is now. But of course I am a bit biased in wanting that since I am primarily a dagger slayer who likes to tank!

          My next biggest concern for the class right now after those is cloak of shadow cooltime being too long so overall I can say:

          Great Job! and Thank you.


          Booster - Jump Attack - not sure what's up with this but the skill doesnt seem to work anymore, simply refuses to go off. So that's a bit of a bummer as I had grown to like it.
          Last edited by Laraki; 05-05-19, 01:26 AM.


          • #22
            Overlord skill "Mastermind" seems to be buggy, adds m.atk but not noticing any increased int from Mastermind gear.

            Unless it scales incredibly bad. If it scales bad, add this to the list of TP fixes.


            • #23
              MM: poison arrow should be a toggle, duration is too short.
              Classic quotations: No issue here. Closing this thread.


              • #24
                Where are the patch notes posted for the changes that have been made since this post was created? When I commented here Bloody Blade was still useful, since then it's clearly been nerfed again along with possibly many other changes implemented to slayer class.. Where are the patch notes for those?


                • #25
                  Originally posted by Laraki View Post
                  Where are the patch notes posted for the changes that have been made since this post was created? When I commented here Bloody Blade was still useful, since then it's clearly been nerfed again along with possibly many other changes implemented to slayer class.. Where are the patch notes for those?
                  Notes are here: