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Epic 9.6 Class Balance Feedback

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  • #16
    ive always been a slayer, im still on my first character Rambizzle November 2007, never used a hoh or a rb, but these changes are kinda wrong, damage is toooo low, might have to use hoh


    • Confusion
      Confusion commented
      Editing a comment
      noooooooo dont do ittttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt ttttttttt. well maybe kinda. but no

    • Laraki
      Laraki commented
      Editing a comment
      Don't rb ram, just make an alt of a different class and level it up again. More fun and you can keep your money and your slayer.

  • #17
    Ello QA Team ~

    Actually I am happy with the new patch and the changes made at the moment, it is true there are still several details to fix as a boost to some of the skills of the corr.

    Clearly I have to announce to the other players of the obvious, the skills should never have been zero cd. It was not the intention in the first place (even Nazgul said it in a post 1 or 2 years ago). Obviously players took advantage of this and the game became somewhat toxic since only one player was needed to carry a group of 7 lazy players.

    They say that their gear became garbage? error still have the same p-def bonus, set bonus and stats as before only without the detail that can no longer exploid the zero cd skill or have an insane amount of damage making them able to solo so easily.

    (mini side note: there r things called "perfect transfers enchant scrolls" or "hector-something" just in case.)

    There was a game mode before the pw stuff existed ... having said that just have to adapt and keep going~

    2nd mini sidenote: sry about engrish :P


    • #18

      I like the idea of being able to choose between tank & dd just by using a toggle is a really good idea. Tanking wise, the new toggle helps out with HP and makes way easier to keep agro HP boost keeps me alive so that's always welcome. Damage Dealer: As a DD the merc is not great and barely good, there is no spam rotation even with +6 cards I can't keep any decent rotation, only way I could would be to use useless skills that don't do any damage. Like many have said you destroy the only skill worth using on the Merc the other ones barely do any damage and we have way too many skills that are useless that either need a shield or dual swords. No skill got boosted in terms of damage to offset the WS nerf, the new aoes don't really do much damage thought they are nice to have. Overall I think the Merc is a class in transition and needs work, I can see how having WS at 0 and with new changes would make the Merc OP but right now is a good tank and subpar DD so the only really choice is a tank, so there is no point in having 2 mercs in a pt or a merc in a pt where you have a temp.

      On a side note it seems everyone's KS got nerf by a lot, people are looking to rb/hoh but not sure which class they think is OP because to me all classes seem the same now (except for OP VM). The few pts I had were not that great and ks was low way lower than it was before update, had to drop down a stage in some of them because it was too low.

      I think this update is a transnational one where they are testing out the toggles idea to have the ability to change the role in a pt. I for one like that idea if the Merc had gain a boost to INV in the same manner that the defense toggle does I would have no complains. I dont mine having the DD hit the floor when im in tank mode because thats the point of the tank, but the same needs to apply to DD mode, have the HP hit the floor but make the damage worth it, so far for the Merc is not that great of a DD.


      • #19
        Lol so the game was literally dieing then they merge servers then they literally nerf most classes slayer mm cor vm etc I personally don’t think spending any more money on this game is worth it just to have what ever class nerfed Can’t leave well enough alone gotta nerf nerf nerf


        • #20
          My take on the magus changes:

          Support skills: balanced and worth using now, good job!

          The serious healing nerf was deserved. However "spirit of restoration" is still as worthless as it has been for the past 5+ years, I suggest a m-atk based formula with the total heal of all ticks (5) combined being about equal to one Angelic Mist.

          Damage: it's lower now like apperently every other class (due to the minimum 1,5sec cd of bleak). I would say in comparrison to other classes it's still balanced (thanks to the focussed gust and "earth and fire"). The change in aoe's is welcome and appreciated. It must be said that with propper cast speed and a +24 helm I find myself often with no skills to cast now (all in cooldown).
          One suggestion: increase the damage of "spear of flame" by 50% to bring it on par with "crystalising water spheres" A skill with a short range, relatively longer cast time and 45 sec cd should do propper damage.
          Last edited by Lamalas; 22-03-19, 05:04 AM.


          • #21
            Whats my think :

            With this nerf you will only get that players who invested 1+ year and real cash for they reviac armors will leave game. So if u wonna do PT there will not be players.

            Next time boost all other classes to same not NERF them.

            I am out ..


            • #22
              Originally posted by Confusion View Post
              SFP: It is a joke. I would have rather you just take out SFP in general. The toggle is useless, even with its minimal threat and ridiculously low damage. It will not hold agro and it’s not worth using even at level 1. Yushiva card was a better alternative.

              Blinding dust: It was evident what was done here with a 30 sec CD that you really do not want slayers to solo. It should have been 10 seconds at max if you don’t want 0 cd.

              Hellstorm: There was really no reason to raise the CD on this and then expect us to hold agro and tank.

              Evasion: This specific class was built on evasion. You took away its only form of defense. Even with high evasion we still would get hit. Maybe lower evasion by 10% but it was lowered by more than 30% last time I checked.

              Crit power: Ok so now, my hellstorm has a higher CD, my blinding dust higher CD, my evasion is gone, SFP is useless… crit power took a hit by over 15%. 5% crit power hit was more than enough. Not all of us have the fancy purses nor amazing gears.

              After Image: It barely even procs. Like at all. And a measly 4.5% when it does. It seems like another waste.

              Phase Blades: No one uses sfp gears unless they could not find pb gears. Even with a small amount of 7.5% drop, it is a lot compared to ALL the other changes stated above. Which is why they keep calling it a nerf. PB shouldn’t have been touched.[/I]
              This is pretty much how I feel about the changes.

              SFP feels pointless now. I only have average gears and I don't see any situation in which I would use SFP, that p.atk reduce is just too big. By far biggest disappointment to me is that now there's no point in using dirks, and I happen to use dirks... No way am I going to use time and money to change to swords. I would have been fine if they'd just nerfed the SFP abit more and not make it pointless toggle skill. I wish that QA team will think about slayers that use dirks if they decide that slayer needs more changes.

              Blind deserved nerf but 30 sec is too much. Make that 15sec, then it's long enough to prevent perm blind.

              Hellstorm 2sec increase in cd. I don't see the point? Atleast I couldn't spam it nonstop(no cd) anyway. Is it too much for slayer to have one good AOE?

              Evasion. 2nd most disappointing change after the dirk fact for me. Evasion was broken for so long and it was so nice that slayer was back to what it was supposed to be, damage dealer with high evasion. High dodge chance gave you chance to survive. I don't have even close to maxed gears so I take quite alot of dmg from hits. Now with lower eva I see fast deaths in my future.

              Crit power. Most of time I don't use cp pieces or gold when I play so this hasn't been that big hit. And I've never had purse which I hear is/was really op. So I don't have strong opinion on this (yet).

              After image. It's really nice that this was fixed to actually do something. From the testing I did, the proc rate seemed fine for passive that shouldn't be perm. Need to test it more tho. Somehow seems like with the PB stat drop, they felt like could actually give one skill a boost. Can't really even be happy with this fix with all the negative nerfs that happened.

              Phase blades. I feel like it's very risky to change a skill that's clearly a main one for the class. It's known that PB gears were only option for slayers and I think they still are. It still doesn't feel nice to see nerfs or "balancing". So much time and money has gone to making gears and it for sure isn't easy to start making new set. Even tho my set isn't +25 and reviac, I can imagine the amount of effort some ppl have put to making maxed out PB set.

              Overall I think these changes were too much. It's a big hit for top slayers but imo even bigger hit for average slayers like myself. This feels like we're all punished cos top slayers could get insane stats with maxed gears and pretty much every cs item possible. They have used alot of time and/or most likely alot of money, don't they deserve "to be op"?

              There's alot of talk about soloing and how noone should be able to solo end DD. I can see the point cos this is online multiplayer game but imo the "ship" about partying has sailed long ago. Player base in rappelz is too small for getting party formed fast and loads of ppl don't have time to be forming parties for 1-2 hours before even getting to dungeon. I like soloing, I can do it when I have time and getting rdy takes just couple minutes. And I could only barely solo s4. Someone said that you should reward party players and I agree with that. It might be hard and idk what should be done to do that but making soloing harder isn't an option. Partying isn't the whole essence of MMO. Even if you solo, you still talk and trade with other ppl. And we who prefer soloing have the occasional party when we have time, even tho it's usually with friends and not random ppl.

              I've been having lots of long breaks from rappelz in last couple years. I started playing again around a month ago but now this update makes me think hard if I can have enough fun playing it.


              • Tlear
                Tlear commented
                Editing a comment
                I think there been now for a while party rewards added if I'm not mistaken 8ppl pt getting exp boost

            • #23
              Berserker in this wave 2 ?
              Really.. Ty so much for no warning or anything at all. Secretly nerf
              Zerk nerfed it by alot. Broke the 2h axe with 8 hit pr sec is maximum. Anything above is pointless and useless. New atk speed plateu and still 8 hits is max.
              (Soo cast speed built for skills with 2h axe) ?? To get the balance from deva warriors ?
              1h axes for atk speed but no matter what the skill damege nerfed. To get the balance from asura warrior ?
              Skills so bad (1/3)
              Tank built bye bye
              Damage dealer bye bye bye


              • Hitsuyga
                Hitsuyga commented
                Editing a comment
                Not true. Zephyr strike for example was nerfed. It does much less damage than before (third of aoe, dot, and generates much less aggro).
                Attack speed is also bugged. He has the same attacks per second naked (700~ atk speed) as he does with 1100 attack speed.

                Ninja nerfs FTW.
                Last edited by Hitsuyga; 22-03-19, 03:50 PM. Reason: Correction

              • KeatherThePuller
                KeatherThePuller commented
                Editing a comment
                Lets state the Obvious:
                1. Pacc useless.
                2. The 10% dmg increase from Tactical Advantage Useless. (Either isn't working properly or insignificant)
                3. The New Atkspeed plateau useless. (Either by fault or design; as the animation isn't reflecting the actual hits per sec. resulting in much lower survivablity because you heal less per animation refresh.... and more importantly max of 8 atks per second? where is my 9 atks? I'm at 1.9k atkspeed and I'm still getting 8 atks per ? Useless.

                Now, here's the real issue: as of 9.6 Zerker two main Aoe Rotations are doing Half there original Idea. Zephyr Strike and Thunderbolt Wind Cut. have been nerfed to the ground and dont tell me about this shytty Tactical Advantage Passive when before the epic at 120k Patk 565 CP i was doing 1.7mil on zephyer strike now after the the new epic at 135kpatk and 580CP im doing barely 1mil damage on the same move.... something is broken somewhere. and should be looked at.
                Ryt now my Zerker is retired lump of useless +25 gears sitting on a useless character. and im on 2 other equally useless characters wondering where the dmg at.

                Poultry Out

              • (QA)Tharja
                (QA)Tharja commented
                Editing a comment
                1. The Pacc might be useless, but this further brings the 2h axe passive to a similar level as the dual wielding.
                2. 10% more damage is difficult to notice, I won't argue there.
                3. There were no issues detected when testing the attack speed changes. Everything worked as it should

                There should not have been any reductions in the Berserker's abilities and their attacks per second should still reach the same amount as the last Epic at 1,060 attack speed.

            • #24
              Ok, I think I will be the only one talking about Templar boost.

              In general, I love all the changes made to templar. HP boost was great and new AoEs helps in the ks solo and/or party. And the Aggro was very nicely improved

              Nevertheless, the p.atk still about the same as E9.5, the damage of the AoEs is very low and even with the nice improvement on aggro, Slayers, Merc and some Healers can keep holding the aggro. Holy ground damage has been also improved, but the damage still very low.

              I also was expecting any other benefit by using shield, maybe by increasing perf block would be awesome.

              For templars who want to tank DD s4 you will need very +24 plus gear (over 50k pdef/2k evasion) and s4/s5 unique healer with +22 plus staff or you will have some hard time.

              In conclusion, all the new changes for Templars are great but many of the changes will benefit the high geared templars since HP is directly related with your pdef, and increasing the patk or damage in AoEs will help.


              • #25
                Corrupter nerfs are so bad.

                shadow atrophia isn't much of a buff, it only helps venge builds and it seems that's all the devs care about. We do have soul plague builds you know!

                DoTs need to be buffed and the need to tick faster with more Cast speed you have and also need the same resistance checks as normal spells atm doTs get hit harder on MR.

                Please don't tell me about PvP, PvP in this game is broken, no build should be solely for PVP.

                Decrease shadow atrophia CD by half, or let the cards reduce CD, increase duration and increase the damage it does. 35 second CD with card affecting cd/dura/mr/pr reduction and with the damage and scaling of at least corruption. Maybe it can reset the duration of DoTs already on target.

                Make Soul Plague hit at least 3 targets when cast on one so it can be useful in pve.

                Increase the damage and lower the CD of putrefy from increasing skill level along with it's card.

                Allow corruption a chance to jump to nearby enemies each tick.

                Make Venge and Soul Plague both be viable in pve!

                Make shield of nightmare able to curse attackers with debuffs

                Give us back our HP!

                We're supposed to be the more tanky DoT class to VM's burst damage yet vm DoTs are better, VM is still all around more better, it's just sad.


                • #26
                  I think the main issue is that when people spent 1000 bucks in cash shop and grind for 2 years to get +25 reviac gear then that skill on it becomes useless.. its extremely hard to sell or change gears. luckily im not someone who got screwed as an overlord since before the balance as im someone who likes playing the oddball classes.. its funny too because i was a de since e7 and now they are really crazy.. and i kept the junk awakened armors luckily..

                  but still.. what sucks is people spend all that time on extremely hard to obtain gears then the skill is destroyed. then what build a new +20 armor and start over? its no wonder so many people are pissed this isnt just a free game to some. some spend thousands of dollars. tbh if there was a cs item to re roll the skill on a +25 weapon or armor i would buy it. i know its about money .. hey webzen has to make money its how they pay their employees but be careful about it because if you lose 90% of your heavy cs users you arent making money anymore... being a 10 years kts user luckily i knew these all ahead of many.. thus why i was ol months ahead of the balance. the changes seem like itll make the server be full of templars and des now.. templars should be tanks... des always were fast attacking ranged with good evasion.. there are classes for a reason. the increased mobs in roa i loved.. esp when your geared good its fun.

                  but above all the skills on +25 armors when you nerf skills was the biggest mistake. hands down. can we break down armors into +24? noob question i know bit i never needed to. perfect weapon transfer is good is there a perfect armor transfer perhaps? i would pay big for that


                  • #27
                    I won't make much friends here, but I like the fact that it is not easy to solo s6, especially as this have been broken classes (VM, Slayer). They were far too strong for the game as they were dealing too much damage and able to tank everything. People got used to it and are now frustrated when they play them after the rebalancing. This is fully normal and actually Webzen's own fault as they allowed those people to get used to the stupid "I can play everything solo or duo". But this is just a side note...

                    I have so far looked a little bit more at the Mercenary and would like to make the following comments:
                    • The general idea of differentiating between tank and dd is great, however imo it lacks a little bit of finetuning. Especially the long cooldowns on the skills doesn't allow a skill rotation.
                    • DD-mode
                      While I understand that nearly all classes got a nerf on the damage, I don't feel that the Merc was such overpowered that we needed to get a 40% damage decrease when being in the DD mode.
                      The patk has been boosted, but together with the nerf in skill-damage multiplier and the high cooldown, the damage reduction is huge.
                      While it is clear that a DD doesn't need much hp, the problem for the Merc is that he is now after the high cooldown of ws heavily dependent on using other skills which unfortunately have been boosted by hate. This makes it difficult to use those breakers with Invig.Essence which on the other hand would force the Merc to be an autohit class or never use the DD-mode in parties s4+.
                    • tank-mode
                      I like the new skill and with a healer in the party I can tank in s4 without a problem. The Ultimation skill kicks in a little bit late, as especially the bosses hit very hard. But on the other hand, one wouldn't want to have this too early as this could make the Merc very strong.
                    I would propose the following changes to make the Merc a decent class that will still be played:
                    • Decrease cooldown a little bit on the main skills (i.e. ws from 3s to 2s, breakers down to 3s at +10 card)
                    • Decrease the damage reduction resulting from the number of mobs
                    • Re-add the Vit buff to Inv.Essence plus a debuff toggle so that this mode can be played in s4 parties when having a decent tank.
                    The main problem of the Mercs is currently the low damage output which is significantly less than other classes even in the DD-mode.
                    Last edited by TinyToon; 22-03-19, 08:03 PM.


                    • #28
                      The corrections of corruptor seem not to be evaluated very well, especially in the combination with the adjustments of shared skills of the other classes.

                      There was no reason to adjust vampirism and occultism it was never overpowered and served well in the role for cc and offhand tanking.
                      I' am not with you regarding these changes.

                      Casting time of shadow atrophia is too long it's simply more useful to spam other skills.
                      Damage, duration and frequency of dots on traps and shadow atrophia don't compensate the nerf of fields and fire storm.
                      That needs an adjustment.

                      The corruptor can't fit well in the cc role anymore with new cool downs on traps and lightning field.


                      • #29
                        Originally posted by Seansurfn View Post
                        I think the main issue is that when people spent 1000 bucks in cash shop and grind for 2 years to get +25 reviac gear then that skill on it becomes useless.. its extremely hard to sell or change gears. luckily im not someone who got screwed as an overlord since before the balance as im someone who likes playing the oddball classes.. its funny too because i was a de since e7 and now they are really crazy.. and i kept the junk awakened armors luckily..
                        With you mentioning the +25 gears, I would like to ask how many people have +25 gears? Obviously, those are the folks that are like, meh, changes...whatever. The real people that got hurt by the FATAL nerfs are the new people and the 'not so well off'. Many just can't afford to CS $150 a month. In an attempt to balance, you created such a huge chasm between the player demographic, I believe that must be what you intended. What better way to force people into your new games than kill the old game people USED TO BE loyal to.

                        Okay, as far as Slayer goes. Just crap. Really, do i need to say more. Some, or a little less of each, okay. But all those changes and to that degree has absolutely killed that class. I see no reason whatsoever to log into that character again. Goodbye CS. I am not gonna drop $1000's on a toon just to remake it as a different class. If you must, nerf SFP or PB, but not both. I mean, how stupid can you be? Did someone seriously think that a character with no heals, no damage, no buffs, no evasion and no support debuffs was a good idea? So there you go, that is Slayer in a nutshell --- "no heals, no damage, no buffs, no evasion and no support debuffs"

                        And as far as QA team goes, you need to take an attitude pill. Seriously. For three weeks before the epic, the forums and Discord were super busy with complaints and suggestions. And did you guys listen? NO! And now you sit there and tell us to make suggestions? For what? So you can ignore us and tell us to just deal with it anyway, AGAIN? No wonder we have no faith in you guys/gals. So yes, all these people here do have a valid reason to toss a jab in. They deserve it after being dismissed as ignorant in the first place.

                        Thank you, that is all


                        • (QA)Tharja
                          (QA)Tharja commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Once the class balance notes have been released to the public, by and large they will not change before they are implemented.

                          I can assure you that the feedback is being listened to, and I'm not telling anyone to make suggestions I'm asking for more feedback so that I can give it to Nazgul so that if things do need to be changed, they can be done so in the best manner.

                          I understand that emotions are running high at the moment. However in this situation allowing them to do so server no purpose. Can you honestly say you listen more to someone who is hysterical than someone who is able to get their point across calmly? The drama simply isn't needed.

                          There is not intention to kill the game, the aim is to make it enjoyable and balanced for all. The issue is that things have become very unbalanced, to the point where you have full parties made up of a single class.

                          There is always the possibility that things will change if they are needed to. My hope is that by inviting players to give feedback things can change for the better, for everyone.

                        • Robertthebard
                          Robertthebard commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I want to specifically address one point from what Tharja said here:

                          The issue is that things have become very unbalanced, to the point where you have full parties made up of a single class.
                          Nothing in this, or any update, will fix this. Players have a mindset about what the FotM is, and that's the classes they want to play, and want in their groups. They also have an idea in their heads, sometimes placed there by players that don't know what they're talking about, and sometimes by people that it's assumed do know what they're talking about, because their names are a different color on the forums, and then, when a class can't perform those expected duties, they get "blacklisted" from groups. This last due to misinformation spread from whatever source.

                          In addition, they want the fastest possible KS for their buck. SS isn't cheap, once you run out of the freebies from leveling, and they want everything they can get out of that money, whether it's in game currency, or actual CS expense. Reducing the atk spd/crit power/overall damage on specific classes won't fix your issue either. What it will do is get these classes "blacklisted" due to excessive nerfing of what they are able to do, through no fault of the player behind the toon. It's a scary thought that these nerfs are even in part based on a fallacy.

                        • Hitsuyga
                          Hitsuyga commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I completely agree about the attitude of QA. The ones on discord were straight up rude, disrespectful and dismissive. Tharja is no better either on forums. They refused to listen to feedback before the changes came through, and somehow are surprised that people are quitting?

                          The blame doesn't rest entirely on them however. The GMs should have been more transparent through the whole process. Feedback should have been asked for throughout the whole process(WK and cardi would have been a thousand times better if they had). More transparency was needed, instead of throwing these changes at us after the decision went through already.

                          They expect us to wait another 6 months for these changes to go through again, with no guarantee or communication of how they plan to do that. No thanks. I'll pass.

                      • #30
                        Thank you Tharja for your clarification of the 6 digit PIN for warehouse and character deletion issue. I'm very pleased to hear that this is merely a temporary issue until server restabilization takes place. Have a nice day!