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What do you think about the changes in the 9.6

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  • #16
    Slayer R.I.P[*] and i end play in this game, thanks Webzen
    Last edited by Phenomen; 06-03-19, 06:23 PM.

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    • #17
      Slayer is about the same damage as a VM now. It just cant run into a room and grab everything, while keeping the damage, as before. If you want to do that, you can use SFP. The whole "I'm quitting because slayer was nerfed" is silly. Slayer is still the highest damage mele class in the game and we put it into the highest tier of damage we want ANY class to have, and it has it, regardless of what your emotions tell you.

      Go on and tell me how I'm wrong or flame me. The QA team has only tested this for God knows how long waiting for it to go live.

      Comment


      • Kenshin
        Kenshin commented
        Editing a comment
        1. I meant the class descriptions that are in game, pre - MC classes Assassins were anti-threat. Focused on evasion, speed and power. Not tanking in any way. For some reason Slayer made that class tree to be a tank with insane amounts of HP and even a aggro skill. Thought this time around it was the time to correct that and keep it as the highest melee dd class that isn't meant to be tanking at all as the lore suggests. Guess thats not the case anymore.

        2. If VM does end up having the lowest HP pool from all classes, it makes sense; otherwise it doesn't. The other 14 classes should have higher HP than VM, if VM will be that 1 class that has the highest damage output, only then it makes sense for sadism to stay if really needed.

        3. I am aware you can't release certain info. At least this hints that the next classes are coming soon and if thats the case, great. Either way the point still stands, lets assume the next wave comes in the next maint after the 19th one. That would still mean 2 weeks that players with classes caught in between will have to deal with half done changes. For example the corruptors now suffered from nerfs and no boosts because the shared skills from vm got nerfed, but corr didn't receive any boosts yet due for it being in another group of classes.

        It's already late for this round, but for the next one it would be better if the groups were matched according to skills. Some players are patient and can wait it out but in 2 weeks or more of being unnecessarily nerfed (only), is enough for some players to quit. All this can be avoided easily.
        Last edited by Kenshin; 06-03-19, 09:42 PM.

      • PrinnyOverlord
        PrinnyOverlord commented
        Editing a comment
        The fact that we aren't aware of when the next update is is kinda the point to group classes that share some skills being affected. Like when slayers got the dark strike boost it effected ol's the most and changed the way they play. Then ol's got an attack % transfer to pets. Now we got a spear ol meta.

        I also agree leaving cause of some not final nerfs is silly. I played cardinal before and during its nerf years. I still play the class.
        Last edited by PrinnyOverlord; 06-03-19, 09:41 PM.

      • Robertthebard
        Robertthebard commented
        Editing a comment
        In what world was Slayer considered "off tank"? Now I get you're on the QA team and all, but I've played this class since E3. A nice thing for an off tank to have is some threat generation, besides just hitting a mob in the face. If we're going to use that to define off tank, then any class in the game is an off tank, because they can all hit mobs in the face.

        Slayer is, and always has been, a weak AoE, Single Target damage class, that got it's main survivability from evasion. I'm not going to say "this is bad", because I haven't played it, yet. But I will be playing it when it goes live, I main a slayer, amongst others. However, I'm not inspired to confidence, considering the misinformation about the class in this comment thread, from a member of the QA team, no less, especially if you were on the team that thought cardinal nerfs were a good idea? I can't comment on those, I suck at the class in general, and so, I don't play it, but since it gets brought up a lot when discussing game breaking nerfs...

    • #18
      TBH the only people who KNOW for a fact how good or bad this will be is the QA team. As Tewodros said - the QA team has been testing this for a long time. I am 99% positive that if they thought it was a game breaking nerf they would have reported back to the GM who's in charge of the QA team to voice their concern.

      While I'm not part of that team, I know they work diligently to do their best to make sure the changes that are made dont make players leave. I also feel sure that some of them play the classes they test on Live server.

      I think this thread would have more credibility if it were not all speculation. I would say about the "changes" - that none of us, except the QA team, know how this will really play out. Everyone is guessing basing on statistics without REALLY trying the changes out.

      I would say - give the update and changes a chance and see if it's as bad as you think it's going to be. THEN come back and support or complain about the changes. The ONE constant that has been in place for a few years is that Nazgul DOES listen to the players. I can almost guarantee no GM will listen to players complain about something they think will happen. Give it time, try it out, find out for yourself and THEN come back.
      Need to submit a ticket? Click http://cs.webzen.com/Inquiry/RegistInquiry/
      1) Choose the category of your issue.
      2) See if any of the listed articles resolve your issue.
      3) If none of the articles resolve your issue, you can click on the most relevant article to submit a ticket.

      Comment


      • (MOD)Hawk4hire
        (MOD)Hawk4hire commented
        Editing a comment
        Anto - while players are free to put money into the game you need to be sure to read the TOS and EULA. Webzen OWNS every account and everything on those accounts.
        Yes a lot of US, me included, paid 100's if not 1000's of $$$ to play the game, + weapons and armor and buy other goodies at the end of the day it's like Mousetrap - you roll the dice you move your mice. Sometimes we win sometimes we lose.

        Kenshin - I agree wholeheartedly about the concerns. At the same time they are slightly premature since most players havent given it a chance to actually play with the changes. I know the Mods and GMs appreciate the concerns of players and, as I said, if its REALLY that bad then they will listen more and possibly make changes. BUT until it's released, having anyone say "the sky is falling runnnnn" is a tad early lol.

        Yes players gave lots of suggestions, I'm quite sure Nazgul read them also and probably so did the QA team. This QA team is probably the best team Webzen's ever had. They work hard to make sure the changes dont destroy the game. They give Nazgul feedback and he goes direct to the Devs.

        But I appreciate your concern and I will simply say, let's wait and see if it's that bad or maybe it comes close to bringing balance in the force.

      • PuppyMonkeyBaby
        PuppyMonkeyBaby commented
        Editing a comment
        "Yes players gave lots of suggestions, I'm quite sure Nazgul read them also and probably so did the QA team. This QA team is probably the best team Webzen's ever had. They work hard to make sure the changes dont destroy the game. They give Nazgul feedback and he goes direct to the Devs."

        Every round of exceptional nerf's alienates players. History has shown, many times over, rather than tweak a toon, they nerf it into oblivion. People leave this game because they do not want to take a toon that took years to build, which is now a buff slave, into combat. The general theme to these super nerfs is always "Return to start, do not pass go, do not collect $200, pay real $$$ and time for a rebuild or go find another game."

      • Robertthebard
        Robertthebard commented
        Editing a comment
        Reading the update notes on the main page tells me everything I need to know: They believe that changing a skill from a passive to a toggle and upping some threat will make a dd class a tank, all while updating the classic tanking class because even with a host of skills on top of the toggles, it can't perform it's duties in a group setting, or, more accurately, is struggling to do so. This is the thing that makes me nervous about the QA team in general, that and the misinformation about the class always being a tank. You know me, Hawk, I've got a few (thousand) hours invested in the class. If I thought it would be ok as a tank, I'd be quiet.

    • #19
      they just tring to make more money, too many slayers and vm's , they need us to rb or hoh, im still playing my first character I've been slayer since nov 2007 never used a rb or hoh before

      Comment


      • #20
        For people who feel that the Slayer changes go too far. Once you have been able to check them out in game, if you still disagree with them then feel free to comment about it. If you think they could be changed to be more fair then say so, suggest alternatives and they will be considered.

        This evening on the Discord I have been discussing the changes to Shadowforged Plating and Phase Blades as a player was wondering which would best suit their needs. I feel, that the reduction to the reduction to p/matk from additional levels of Shadowforged Plating wouldn't be enough to make that equipment worth using over Phase Blades.

        This is the sort of thing that the QA team may miss during the testing process as the team is deliberately kept small. However, it leads me to the suggestion of:

        Would it be fair for additional levels of SFP to have a larger impact on the p/matk reduction?

        Comment


        • PrinnyOverlord
          PrinnyOverlord commented
          Editing a comment
          Ok thanks for clarifying the dethreat tharja. Wouldnt make any sense to have them both on.

          Now, does this mean when corruptors get balanced they get a threat toggle? According to the "slayers have been accustomed to tanking therefore they tank" reason this should make corruptors another tank. They have been doing this role since cube days.

          All jokes aside we would have to see how this plays out.
          Last edited by PrinnyOverlord; 08-03-19, 12:58 PM.

        • Robertthebard
          Robertthebard commented
          Editing a comment
          Or just don't keep trying to give them tank skills? Here's the problem: You say

          If it becomes apparent that Slayers cannot keep aggro, then there is always the possibility of further changes to enable them to do so.
          I can tell you right now, before this ever goes live, that they're going to struggle with aggro management. You see, tanking isn't holding aggro from one mob, barring a boss fight with no adds. It's being able to mitigate damage, acquire and hold aggro on multiple targets at once, and if you think this isn't the case, read the Templar changes again, and why they were implemented. The problem with trying to assert "it's going to be a fine tank" is that in the very same update, you are changing the classic tank because it can't maintain aggro on unlinked mobs. This isn't done for "lower geared" players, this is being done because it's a class problem, and now you're telling us that Slayer will be fine as a tank, w/out all the modifications made to the classic tank because it couldn't perform it's job. It's apparent to me, and others, that there is an issue with "Slayer as a tank", and this planned update lays out the most glaring one not in the changes to Slayer, but in the changes to Templar.

        • JustBrowsing98
          JustBrowsing98 commented
          Editing a comment
          Maybe if Robert was on the QA team it might have some clue as to what tanking entails in something other than 'let's try it for 30 seconds on a boss without any VM's in the party'. How exactly is a slayer going to tank a room full of mobs when you just nerfed it's only useful aoe?

          Slayers are single target and limited AOE damage dealers- the trade off on poor aoe was the high damage. I've never heard of anyone wanting a slayer as a tank or the option- especially when that option probably means making an entire new set and spending $$$$$$$ pimping the gear so you can tank.

          People won't bother at this stage in the game's life, they will just quietly slip away.

      • #21
        Well, then at least then with the tank build you wouldn't have to worry about the lower HP cause then you wouldn't be able to get aggro, therefore, not get attacked and receive damage. Perfect leech class.

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        • #22
          Balanse by Webzen
          Step 1 strengthen the character
          Step 2 wait for people to start playing this character
          Step 3 change a little into a character, promise that you will not change anything more
          Step 4 enjoy the profit
          Step 5 Nerf character
          Step 6 say it's for the public good
          Step 7 keep the players' opinions in the a...
          Step 8 promise change
          Step 9 repeat step 1


          Comment


          • #23
            One thing that smells fishy with Rappelz is the time it takes to balance classes. No game I have ever played takes so long to balance classes. It is not rocket science and yet they draw it out as if it is the most difficult thing in the world.

            Comment


            • NikkiTikki
              NikkiTikki commented
              Editing a comment
              Because Rappelz Devs put themselves in a corner, they allowed Auto Attack/Attack Speed builds to flourish to the point that skills were meaningless. So they buffed skills without nerfing AA/AS and now the classes that benefit the most from those builds are going hog wild.

              No other game has this issue because most other games treat AA/AS as bonus to skills - Not replacements. Now the Devs for whatever reason won't pull the plug and just nerf Attack Speed and instead are gutting classes trying to keep both. It won't work.

              Games like WoW treat AA as just extra damage, AS is simply added damage for burn phases. FF14 pretty much treats AA is meaningless, it's all about skills. Rappelz is all about just stacking AS and then spamming an AoE skill if you got it. It's simply bad game design. Especially when you see characters start to glitch and blur once you hit near 3 attacks per second. Like why do we even have skills for melee classes?

              Then again this is the game that locks buffs behind TPs and refusing to give or lower CDs on AoEs for classes in a game that's pretty much AoE spam central.
              Last edited by NikkiTikki; 07-03-19, 04:44 PM.

            • PrinnyOverlord
              PrinnyOverlord commented
              Editing a comment
              My OL uses basic attacks as extra damage in between dark strikes and stuns.

            • Tienpauh
              Tienpauh commented
              Editing a comment
              Well then given whats happened it looks like balancing classes IS rocket science to those who are doing it here. They are mucked it up, oh dear. Aim to keep people playing by making their experience expanded not limit it and frustrate them and making the game harder by ruining all the hard work in their character development. I've already started playing something else but eagerly await some improvement hopefully soon but I am not holding my breath based on how they have manged this game over the years. For shame!

          • #24
            Hello people,

            I understand the frustration of a lot of players who spend a lot of time and money perfecting their class, but if we want to balance the classes we have to make significant changes which will inevitably affect your builds. It hurts when it happens but it's better for everyone on the long run and this is why players ask for class balance at the first place.

            Class balance takes time because we highly depends on GALA to implement the changes, the rework of each class and the direction taken toward each were obvious from the beginning, we didn't try to trick anyone.

            We hope that this rework will encourage you to try new things and enjoy the new challenges that it triggers. If we find out that the nerfs went too far, we will make adjustments. But of course things need to be played first, I remember very well when the VM got his first round of nerfs ,people massively complained stating that the class was "dead" and the changes were not justified. 2 months later VM was still over-represented and the best dps class in the game, justifying further adjustments that you see today.

            Comment


            • Phenomen
              Phenomen commented
              Editing a comment
              Why do you destroy the best class and do nothing with the rest ? people lost money and must spend more cash to do make another class, you only discourage people from this game and slowly lead her to death

            • JustBrowsing98
              JustBrowsing98 commented
              Editing a comment
              by 'try new things' I'm guessing you mean 'spend lots more money in the cs on stuff to pimp a whole new gear set'.

              As Hitsuyga has pointed out, your previous comments on slayer have proved to be false as you have now swung the heavy grade 5 nerf bat whilst increasing cooldown on the aoe and tickling it's aggro management to make it very annoying in a party where you might have someone else actually tanking.

            • Confusion
              Confusion commented
              Editing a comment
              To be fair, I really do not think you do understand. Nor do I think any of the insensitive remarks from the MOD/QA people understand either... "The whole "I'm quitting because slayer was nerfed" is silly." We are upset for good reason. Maybe you should push out ALL the "balance/nerfs" at once so we can finally choose what we will play based on your ideas of what "balances" are. Cuz as of now.. I am confused what an actual tank is. Can my slayer now be a healer? Should I run around with a staff and magewell and a healer pet too... VM was not half as nerfed as slayer is in those patch notes.

              Lets say the changes are really bad... We cannot do what we used to be able to do with our classes. We then ask for slayer to be reworked... is that going to take 1+ year to implement? Are we going to be considered "complaining"? I really don't understand where the miscommunication is coming from here.

              I see two servers pushed to 1 server and a PVE server with not many people. Before the GMs said... We are not forcing you to party.. but then doing the exact opposite. We ask for balance and you give us a forum post to give our remarks on how to change... None of that was seen or tried.

              So I ask you... "try new things" is fine when it doesn't come down to real players time and money. At that point... the only "try new things" will be other games.
              Last edited by Confusion; 15-03-19, 08:30 AM. Reason: Ugh...

          • #25
            Another thing I noticed, while reading through these changes is that it doesn't say if the hate increase is AoE, or single target. My money's on single target right now, and frankly, based on the changes being made to templar, this doesn't make Slayer a tank, let alone a good one. My suggestion is to throw that idea out with the bath water, it's going to take a lot more reworking to get a slayer to tank status from it's normal role of damage dealer. Instead, look at ways to "improve" that role. This whole concept reads like someone that leveled through the game with HLPs trying to teach someone else how to play.

            Comment


            • PuppyMonkeyBaby
              PuppyMonkeyBaby commented
              Editing a comment
              Little late in the game to tear a class to shreds and plan on a rebuild in 2 years (at the rate of balances now). Defend it or not, it is a money grab. I has been the dozen times they have done it before, and for sure it will be for the next dozen also. We used to get an 'oops' and then we got an update that fixes a skill or something. Now it seems we just wait and watch the leader boards and crush a class or two. And the ones who avoid it the most are the ones who are OP enough to cause the balance in the first place.
              And why haven't many commented on the fact that of the 20 people on at anytime on Unicorn, only 2 or 3 each are willing and/or able to party up. Why is it so wrong to just want to play the game and not stand in town for hours with a dumbass LFDP posted on your forehead. A certain amount of 'solo' is required, and it pains me to have equipped high level toons that can no longer do a anything decent solo besides farm field mobs for crap xp and poor to mediocre rups.

            • PrinnyOverlord
              PrinnyOverlord commented
              Editing a comment
              I think the hate increase is for any mob getting hit. Since hellstorm got a 2 sec nerf means every 10 sec some amount of hate builds up on a couple mobs. While 1 target gets a crap ton just from basics.
              There is also the new one minute rule in which if you haven't set any threat on a target for a minute it sets your threat level back to 0 for that mob.

            • Robertthebard
              Robertthebard commented
              Editing a comment
              This would be funny, if it weren't so sad, or if they'd not updated Templar at the same time, so one could look at the glaringly obvious problems with "Slayer is a tank".

          • #26
            No one mention how templar is going to be annoying now when your just chilling in the field. It got a damage boost and its AOE. Templars were already hitting hard with spams and on top of that they can auto you with their effortless attack speed. Holy sht. I can image now. Lots of Templar Rebirth going to be happening.

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            • #27
              Well, I don´t get the mentality of Webzen or the publishers on that.
              Why would you want to nerf classes, while others are almost not playable?
              It does not make any sense, the slayer already had what he deserved.
              It is one of the most well-rounded classes in the game, has amazing dmg output and with heavy investment (CS consumables) it can play rather smoothly the end content of the game.

              So, why not even up the playground?
              Start thinking about how to change the existing landscape and upcoming dungeons rather than nerfing classes?
              Do you think what you did with the bishop, healer was enough to boost? Really? A class that needs 1h for soloing DD4 twice?
              Sure it has no focus on damage, so? Healfocus ? Okay, where the 150-250 k group heals every second that ensures no deaths?

              You guys lack the roleplay brain to develop things that work.
              Rather than sitting there and trying "CRAP" storytelling, you should rework the core of every class.
              AND DONT TOUCH existing classes if you go for nerfing!!!

              That is a Asia grinder, then change the upcoming landscape mobs that they are not doable solo.
              How hard can it be to do a Six-Box Model of the champions: Is state, To be state, enablers, initiatives, obstacles, and execution/scenario?
              Last edited by Sunair; 09-03-19, 02:38 AM. Reason: Nope everything was okay, don´t try to change the nerativ of my sentences!

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              • #28
                All this complaining about nerfs, we all know your just going to rebirth to the new most OP class anyway, don't forget to sell your gear for overprice prices too before the update lol. I for one am glad about a lot of these changes as I play multiple characters depending on my mood

                Comment


                • Kenshin
                  Kenshin commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Oh look, someone that doesn't care for the game well-being. Wonder what's he doing on forums.

              • #29
                I would like to say from where we sitting this balancing doesnt look like a balancing at all. lets face it you say balance we see classes e.g ol way stronger then other classes for damage and tanking ability yes ol can s6 easy solo and isnt slow at it and doesnt need any where near as high gear as other classes. Then you have e.g. wk and cardinal well how many of them are around and lets be honest its not cos NOONE likes them classes. i dont see how you can even balance a pet class before balancing the pets as this will impact different classes in different ways and pets are a base line for a pet class not other way around. PLEASE STOP think and come up with a good plan if there isnt one we dont know about. you shouldnt be shocked at people being mad with slayer nerf when a vm to be biggest dd and still be able to tank (which it should be a glass canon) ps im not anti vm just and example cor is ment to be more of a tank then vm and isnt and yes i know it is still to be balanced but to boost cor tanky ness will mean then it is op at tankyness to other off tank classes. The class description says what a class should be people pick there class because of this and spend alot to build it to what it should be and turns out it isnt as per description. The best thing i ever heard was you going to balance all the classes at once and then role it out because this would mean you had a level of balance that isnt moving as people adapt to and get it all done in 1 go so we dont have to mess around swapping classes. All people should be asking for is classes to be balanced as per descriptions.

                Comment


                • Derppy
                  Derppy commented
                  Editing a comment
                  You are mistaken about OL needing less gear then other classes when I did my s6 solo I'm using really high gears on me and pets imo ol is one of the most expensive classes to play

              • #30
                Originally posted by K[URL="http://forum.webzen.com/member/1594-kenshin"
                enshin[/URL] commented
                Oh look, someone that doesn't care for the game well-being. Wonder what's he doing on forums.
                There is a difference between not caring for the games well being & whinging and bitching about the class I play being nerfed without actually waiting and testing the changes.

                Comment


                • JustBrowsing98
                  JustBrowsing98 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Ahh, now I understand. 'The QA team is all about changing things'.

                  So not really interested in actual balance, classes, time and money invested.

                  Change for change's sake. Obviously driven by trying to make people spend more $$$$ in the cs to change builds after changes to skills, builds, etc.

                • (QA)Tharja
                  (QA)Tharja commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I said what I meant and I don't appreciate you twisting my words simply because you do not like these changes.

                  Things needed to change, that's why they are changing. The money people have invested in to classes is a significant consideration.

                  Crystal Aura, Phase Blades and Righteous Purpose are all still the best skills to have on equipment. During the balancing for Shadowforged Plating making it in to a buff was considered, but this was decided against because the people who had invested in that gear would have lost out as other players could get the same effect without having to + the gears at all.

                  Personally, I think that additional levels of SFP could go further to reducing the hit to p/matk which would further improve the skill for those who invested in the full set of gears.

                  I'm quite happy to have a reasonable discussion with other players. But if you are simply going to complain for the sake of complaining because you don't like whatever changes. I'll simply ignore you.

                • JustBrowsing98
                  JustBrowsing98 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I simply repeated exactly what you said. 'The QA team is all about changing things'. That's not twisting your words, it's a direct quote.

                  If your main aim is to 'change things', then it is going to impact on players that have invested many thousands of $$ into their toon. Expect people to be less than happy about it.

                  Also, previously it was stated by Nazgul that after the last set of nerfs to slayer they thought damage was in a happy place and this aspect was not going to be nerfed, but aggro might be looked at.

                  So basically we now cant' take anything that is said as truth, and the only certainty now is 'change for change's sake.
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