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Templar tanking guide and ug basics- by Bahl

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  • Templar tanking guide and ug basics- by Bahl

    1 prologue

    2 main builds

    3 attack speed build
    -a attack speed plateaus
    -b talent points
    -c increasing attack speed
    -d gear & stones
    e belt sets
    -f belt pets and boss cards

    -g skills

    4 salvation build
    -a how Holy Ground works
    -b talent points
    -c gear & stones
    belt sets
    -e belt pets and boss cards

    -f skills

    5 pets

    6 YouTube channel

    1 prologue
    I figured it was about time for some reworking of this guide. I've decided to rework it meant for 160+ based on the questions I get most often. The old guide meant for new players that are starting out as a fresh templar is posted here:

    2 main builds
    At 160+ most templars are either using an attack speed build or using a salvation setup to spam Holy Ground at 0 CD. The attack speed build relies on auto attacks and patk while the salvation setup relies on very fast clicking and matk.

    The attack speed build is more lazy and more common. Templars get more hp and most of their damage is single target which makes it better suited to tank bosses.

    Killing in a salvation setup requires a lot more clicking and it's not something everybody likes to do. It has a much better AoE hold and the biggest downside of it is that the matk mod on Holy Ground is small and it will be very ineffective against high mdef mobs.

    3 attack speed build
    -a attack speed plateaus

    Attack speed works in plateaus. That means that they work in ranges in which adding more attack speed will not make you hit any faster unless you get to the next plateau. The highest plateau I found is 959 attack speed. This will allow you to do 8.2 attacks per second. The 2nd best plateau is 502. Adding more attack speed to it is pointless as long as you do not get enough to make 959.

    -b talent points
    The most common setup for 5 TP is 3/0/2. For 6 it's 3/1/2 and for 7 it's 3/2/2. There are some variations possible, but putting at least 2 in the first tree is a good idea because righteous purpose gives you a large amount of p and matk and some added hp. From the last tree Active Guard, Thorned Shield and Zeal are the most interesting skills. Zeal is a passive that allows you to move faster which is very helpful in a lot of the run style dungeons and increases your vit while wearing a shield. ​​​​Thorned shield is a passive that converts block rate to attack speed and block def to patk.Active Guard is a self buff that adds a % to your block rate. The high amount of block rate coupled with the conversion to attack speed is the main reason why templars can get such high attack speeds. The main benefit of the center tree is that it ups your p and matk and gives you a small amount of attack speed.

    If you have a lot of spare attack speed and don't really need the running passive, you might want to try out a 3/3/1 setup.

    -c increasing attack speed
    There are a lot of ways to increase attack speed on a templar. Because Thorned Shield is a non MC passive anything that increases block rate, boosting your block rate would increase your attack speed. So enhancing your shield higher, getting block rate on your boots or armor or belting a gnoll would work. Active Guard adds 1.8% block rate per level and card +. You can increase your block rate slightly by getting a better card or swapping to Active Guard PW pieces just to buff to up the level. Using Thorned Shield pieces would up your increase your attack speed by 10% of your block rate, but doing so is not ideal since it would mean having to fight in this gear.

    Other ways to increase your attack speed are by increasing your Shield Mastery (+1 unmodified block rate), Active Guard (1.8% bonus block rate) and Thorned Shield (10% of total block rate to attack speed) by using a DT buff, an additional +1/2/3 skill levels from +20/22/24 helmet or by using a physical deva bear belt. The bear belt is only ideal if it allows you to get a plateau that you would not otherwise get.

    Higher skill levels in Devout Fury from TP or PW gear and Shield Mastery from PW gear would help a bit, but I'll ignore those for now. It's a small increase and usually not worthwhile.

    Those are all the Templar specific attack speed increases. The attack speed increase you get from block rate is not affected by attack speed % increases. The other part of your attack speed can be increased in a similar way to every other class. Attack speed or agi buffs & consumables, agi & att speed awakenings, agi & attack speed dura and belt pets. DT pot is also very helpful.

    -d gear & stones
    Righteous Purpose PW gear is ideal if you can get 959 with a full set. It gives you a large p and matk bonus as well as an HP increase that makes this a perfect setup. If you can not get enough attack speed otherwise it might be worth it to use 1 or 2 pieces of Thorned Shield.

    The most ideal armor bonus on gear is:
    - chest 300 acc or 10 cp (+max hp, 4 slot or 3 slot with vit). Block rate might help hitting plateaus and perf block can give a big defensive boost.
    - gloves 300 acc, 10 cp and attack speed (3 slot). Macc is somewhat useful just like patk or pignore.
    - boots 20 ms, 6 perfect block, evasion (3 slot). Evasion doesn't really do anything if you plan on going higher content and block rate might be helpful for reaching plateaus.

    Such gears are very expensive. I mainly added them because I get asked about them a lot. I wouldn't bother with the stats much if you're starting out.

    mace and shield:
    - 24 str/vit or 4/3% matk/patk dura. The patk% dura is the most popular one, but it isn't that useful. At or below +23 gear the full str/vit one gives you more patk. The bonus from it might be lower on +24 depending on your setup and slightly less at +25.
    - acc very nice for high content. Iirc the range is around 40-130
    - pdef or eva. Not a must. Pdef would also give a small boost to patk and the evasion is useful for low stages and less tough content, but useless for the high ones.
    - max hp. Not a must. Small damage boost and slightly more survival.
    - cp. Guaranteed stat and it ranges between 12.5 and 20.

    Shields get either perfect block or block def. Perfect block can make it a lot easier to kill bosses while block def is usually better if you are fighting a lot of low damage doing mobs.

    It's useful to get some buff gear for Active Guard and to a lesser extent Blessing.

    Stone wise go with full crit and fill the rest up with vit.

    -e belt sets
    The 3 most common belt sets are Endairon, Anessa and Physical Deva Bear belt. They all have their uses and it depends on what you want to do.

    - Endairon set: ideal for boosting your damage while killing high pdef monsters. For example: Revived Bosses, Island of the Gods bosses and RoA mobs.

    - Anessa set: ideal for boosting hp and being able to survive. Especially if your armor is low this could be a good option.

    - Physical Deva Bear belt: only useful if you need the added attack speed. It can be a great addition to make you hit a plateau, but if you don't need it for that either of the other belts will be more useful.

    -f belt pets and boss cards
    People love to ask me what the best pelt pets are, but there's no universal best belt set. It depends on your setup and where you want to kill.

    The only universal thing for a 3 slot RP setup wanting to do damage is this:
    get enough attack speed to make plateau > get enough acc to not miss (often) > max vit+pdef > max str+patk (> max int + matk)

    The int+matk only gives a tiny boost and wouldn't normally bother with it.

    How much att speed you need depends on your setup. I currently don't have to belt any attack speed pets on my templar to reach 959, but I had to in the past. It depends a bit on your gear what gives more attack speed, but usually they are ordered like this: skell > harpy > gnoll.

    Acc is another thing that varies based on your setup and where you want to kill. I use no acc increases in PW, some in RoA and max it for Island of the Gods.

    Belting evasion pets can be very useful if you are killing in PW, low stages, temple dungeons or fields. It is however extremely pointless to do so for RoA or Island of the Gods.

    The best boss card to do damage is Mephisto. Soul of Lunacy is a very good defensive one. Medusa card can be useful if you need more threat. A crystal golem card can help out if you are partying and need more hp to be able to survive. Don't waste your rupees on a hector card because they are currently useless.

    -g skills
    You won't be using a lot of them. The main source of damage will be auto attacking. I'll list the ones I consider most useful.

    - all self buffs: divine cluster is extremely useless. I often don't recast it and wouldn't bother investing in a card. The others are good and worth gettign a card for.
    - Holy Ground: very useful target AoE. In a RP setup the main damage it does is patk based and it is your main source of AoE damage
    - Holy Aura: toggle that damages mobs standing close to you based on your patk
    - Provoke: Threat toggle that increases the threat of your auto attacks.
    - Hate Aura: a short CD skill that you can use to drag mobs on you that haven't been attacked yet. Best used to draw mobs that might have been added to standing to close pets or party members. If you are using an impact amp, using this skill would also chip all mobs in the area.
    - Heaven's Madness: short CD ranged AoE. It is best used when AoEing and not on single targets.
    - Spell Intercept: this skill allows you to cancel a spell. It's pretty hard to get the timing right at first, but you can use it to for example prevent a PW Takin from using his AoE or to prevent a Hector in RoA from summoning his goons. Getting a card for this skill helps.
    - Godly protection: long lasting damage reducer. It is very helpful if you get hit hard. There are certain types of damage it does not do anything against.
    - Deflecting shield: emergency high damage reducer with a longish cd. Very useful skill.

    Other skills worth mentioning:
    - Shield Charge: rush and stun attack. It's a cool skill and though it can be very useful in various situations, it can also be pretty pointless in many others.
    - Judgement of Heaven: AoE stun. This can be a good addition when AoEing, but it has a long CD as well.
    - Other stuns. I mainly use them to save other people, but I hardly ever use them.
    - Restrain: high movement debuff. I haven't used this in ages, but it is a skill worth mentioning. It's best used if you end up in a situation where a party member has aggro on a non ranged mob and you can't get aggro off him and you can't stun it.
    - Mental Breaker: skill to get mp back. You shouldn't really need this in a full RP setup.
    - Physical & Soul Breaker: somewhat useful debuff on bosses if you are partying.

    4 salvation build
    -a how Holy Ground works

    You can target this skill to an area. Mobs in the area will get hit by matk damage every when the field is cast and every 3 seconds after. The skill use macc (with a +mod) to check if it lands a debuff. The debuff ticks for patk damage, but in a salvation setup the skill is renewed so that it only does matk damage. Check this link for more info on how the skill works:

    -b talent points
    You only get Holy Ground if you put 3 TP in the first tree, so that is a given for this setup. If your gear is low, you would get the most patk from adding points in the 2nd tree. The most notable skill from the third tree is zeal which ups your movement speed while wearing a shield. Various TP setups are used in this build, but don't put 3 in the last tree. It is extremely useless..

    -c gear & stones
    You can only use this setup with 3 parts salvation.

    The most ideal ones are:
    - chest 300 macc, 10 cp (4 slot or 3 slot with int or vit)
    - gloves: 300 macc and 10 cp (3 slot)
    - boots: 20 ms (3 slot)

    These are max values and don't bother about the stats if you can't afford to. The other stats don't matter as much for most setups, but they can help. Weapon and shield wise it depends a lot on what you want to do and what you can afford. There are players using 1h staff and magewal , 1h staff and shield, 2h staff, 1h mace and mw or 1h mace and shield using this setup.

    Depending on your armor enhances and what you fight, you might be able to survive without a shield. A MW counts as a shield and you are able to use and benefit from any shield skill while wearing one. That makes using a MW and 1h staff the better choice compared to a 2h staff. You can also block and block perfect with a MW which might make it worthwhile to get block rate and/or perfect block on boots or chest piece.

    A 1h staff and magewall would give you the most matk if they are +25.
    -24 int + 6% int
    - macc very nice for high content. Iirc the range is around 40-130
    - max hp . Not a must. Small damage boost and slightly more survival.
    - cp . Guaranteed stat and it ranges between 12.5 and 20.

    A mace would give you more matk compared to a staff at low values if you put TP in the 2nd tree.

    For mace.and shield aim for these duras:
    - 4/3% matk / patk
    (- acc very nice for high content. Iirc the range is around 40-130) This is mainly useful for mental breaker.
    - pdef or eva . Not a must. Pdef would also give a small boost to patk and the evasion is useful for low stages and less tough content, but useless for the high ones.
    - max hp . Not a must. Small damage boost and slightly more survival.
    - cp . Guaranteed stat and it ranges between 12.5 and 20.

    It's useful to get some buff gear for Blessing and to a lesser extent Active Guard.

    Stone wise go with full crit and fill the rest up with vit .

    -d belt sets
    You'd expect a Marbas set to be useful for it, but it wasn't doing much when I tested it. I'm not sure if it's because of poor testing or if it is really useless.
    What I liked most was a physical belt, but there might be better options available. I didn't find any that had a big boost in usefulness. If you go with a physical, I would suggest crazy clown earrings that fireball on getting hit.

    -e belt pets and boss cards
    The most ideal setup is with 3 s1 WD's. Depending on your other gear you might want a macc soul pet or 2. For a cheap 4 slot setup belt 3 staged angels and a mephisto boss card for damage.

    The best boss card to do damage is Mephisto. Soul of Lunacy or crystal golem card can help out if you are partying and need more defensive stats. The HoT from Lunacy will not proc on HG spams. Don't waste your rupees on a hector matk card because they are currently useless.

    -f skills
    In this setup you really only use Holy Ground for damage. Because of that it's good to invest in a good card for it. If you use it on prolonged boss fights you can spam very fast for 3 seconds, followed by 9 seconds of waiting and repeat this. Once again this setup isn't effective against high mdef targets at all.

    Apart from self buffs the only other skills that are worth using are:
    - Onslaught: optional 2nd tree TP skill. It adds a good amount of matk and mpierce, but it drains mp
    - Mental Breaker: skill to get mp back. (Melee weapon only)
    - Godly protection: long lasting damage reducer. It is very helpful if you get hit hard. There are certain types of damage it does not do anything against.
    - Deflecting shield: emergency high damage reducer with a longish cd. Very useful shield only skill.

    Somewhat useful skills:
    - Holy Aura: toggle that damages mobs standing close to you based on your patk
    - Spell Intercept: shield only skill that allows you to cancel a spell. It's pretty hard to get the timing right at first, but you can use it to for example prevent a PW Takin from using his AoE or to prevent a Hector in RoA from summoning his goons. Getting a card for this skill helps.
    - Restrain: high movement debuff. You can debuff a boss and kite + HG spam it, but it's pretty annoying.
    - Stuns: Judgement is AoE stun that is melee weapon only. Shield Strike is shield only and Stun Mace Perfection is mace only. Stun mace works with any weapon, but it it is a very unreliable stun.
    - Soul Breaker: melee weapon only skill and somewhat useful mres debuff

    5 pets
    The most common pet for a templar is a heal pet.

    On a full RP templar a unique heal pet with Unicorn relic and Nightmare Unity and master devotion would give a bigger boost in patk to your char than any other pet would. If you're starting out aim for a soul pet with 2 8 second heals and pleas of the pious.

    It can be useful to use an attack speed unity pet on a templar if you need the added attack speed to make plateaus, but you would need to be able to survive without the pet heals.

    6 YouTube channel
    Last edited by BahlUni; 01-04-17, 09:03 PM.

  • #2
    Hi Bahl, can you give us some info about how evasion, defense, block works ??


    • #3
      Hi Liam,

      A very basic question, but a welcome one.

      When somebody or something tries to attack you with a melee hit or skill, the game calculates if you can dodge the hit. If you do, you take no damage and get a "dodge" text on your screen. If you don't and use a shield or magewall, it does a roll against your block rate. If you fail that, the game ignores your bdef and only uses your pdef to calculate how much you get hit for. If you block the hit there will be another roll against your perf block. If that is succesful you'll see a text block perfect and you'll get no damage from the attack. If it fails, your bdef gets added to pdef and you'll see a "block" text on your screen.

      The rate you dodge at is chance based and depends on a few things. The level and acc of what / who is hitting you compared to your own level and evasion. If you level up you'll need around 30-40 less evasion to get similar results. The same mob in higher levels of UG will have higher acc and you would need more evasion if you want to keep dodging at the same rate. Because of this high evasion tends to be more useful in the lower levels.

      Though your block rate can get well over 100%, it doesn't actually make a difference. 100% or higher means that you will block or block perfect any melee hits. This might change in the next epic. They seem to add att speed for block rate. Regardless of that getting at least 100% block rate will make taking hits a lot easier. If you have 2 TPs in the last templar tree you'll need a +12 or 13 shield along with a decent active guard card.

      PVE upping perfect block might be a good idea when you have no issues keeping aggro, a high amount of block rate, but others have issues keeping you alive. This could be due to low gear, lack of CC or when fighting high level UG bosses in good gear. You can up perfect block by using fortifying gear, anessa ring, ug armor and boots with perf block, bdef soul stones, mc or legend shield, arena / daily quest decos and leveling sacred aegis. Most temps have between 30-40% in a boss killing setup. It is possible to get over 50%,.but it is rather hard to get all the gear needed. Getting those kinds of amounts will lead to a big loss in DD power making it harder to keep aggro.

      When you calculate damage for non crits, it uses half of your pdef on non blocks and half of your total pdef and bdef for blocks to reduce damage. Crits you get PVE are at 180% of this.

      You might get hit by a non chipped normal hit for 3.5k and a blocked hit for 2.5k when you have 10k pdef and 2k bdef. For crits this would be 6.3k non blocked and 4.5 blocked. If you add 500 def and 500 bdef, you'll get hit for 3250 on non blocks and 2k for blocks. For crits 5850 non blocked and 3.6k blocked.

      There are a few exceptions to this damage example. For one it asumes that you don't have any damage reducers or mitigators on like pass damage, shining armor, exalted protection, obsi proc, bone dragon card and camper title. If you use any of those they will be calculated after the damage you are supposed to get. The other exception is that more pdef and bdef will not further reduce your damage from a target when they total twice the attack of the target. How high this min damage is depends on your level and the mobs level. If you are at min damage, the only way to reduce it further is by using damage reducers and mitigators.


      • #4
        Thanks Bahl, this is one of the most important things for a templar, you should add this at the begining of your main post.

        PD: Are you playing in Unicorn?

        Edit: It would be nice if you add some color to this post, or some pics.


        • SteelMace
          SteelMace commented
          Editing a comment
          at the bottom of every page there is a link to the old forum most of the threads there are still containing good info

        • Liam
          Liam commented
          Editing a comment
          Yes, but i didn't find any post with this kind of info.

      • #5
        Reading about the Evasion on the Templars, yes is it really helpful it remove a lot of lag on my Templar and can kill too easy before HG ends (8 ~ 12 mobs at same time in ToA or ToLS with 500 of Evasion), but i wonder how did u get the 1k evasion in your MC set
        IGN: Khementiri Lv160 Cardinal / CatalinaDeErauso Lv160 Oracle / ShupLakYampa Lv168 Templar / CountDuckula Lv150 Master Breeder Server: Rappelz US - Betrayal (ex Baphomet, ex Bahamut) Guild: Outlanders


        • BahlUni
          BahlUni commented
          Editing a comment
          High level evasion unity, 2 belt uni / wolves and buffs. You don't need any blur, agi move stones or world buffs to reach 1k. On the other hand I used the 1k in cube and you dont need to go that far for tols. You are likely to be better off with less evasion and higher offensive stats. Just try and see what works best depending on what you want to do.

          You can get eva unity on ranged, melee and tank pets. The range pets are the easiest way to increase damage in solos and rf not missing is very useful, but a high staged melee one would beat a high staged ranged one DD wise when you are AoEing with lag. Hells breath is rather op. Tank pets can get cool support buffs, but they tend to lack in damage for solo. The annoying thing about tank pets is that it takes way more effort in leveling to see if it is useful compared to other types.

      • #6
        Hi Bahl,
        How reflecting damage work?
        Does it reduce incoming damage aswell?
        Does defense affect his effect?


        • BahlUni
          BahlUni commented
          Editing a comment
          Good question and I'm not 100% sure.
          What I do know is that it damages mobs and people that hit you, so it does not work on dodges. The damage it does is rather low and it will do more damage if you get hit by a higher atk. PVE it is typically used to give you a tiny amount of added aggro and does seem to reduce incoming damage by such a small amount that you will hardly notice it. It does not reflect damage from DoTs and PVE mobs tend to take more damage than they dish out.
          I did a quick PVP test and your armor not the armor of what is attacking you seem to matter. That's rather strange. It would have made sense if it reflected an attack equal to the original attack * your reflection rate back at the attacker and counted def normally. It however doesn't seem to do that. But I tested this with an unbugged BM so I might need to test it with higher patk on the attacker. I will update this info if I get different results.

      • #7
        I will be waiting the update
        IGN: Khementiri Lv160 Cardinal / CatalinaDeErauso Lv160 Oracle / ShupLakYampa Lv168 Templar / CountDuckula Lv150 Master Breeder Server: Rappelz US - Betrayal (ex Baphomet, ex Bahamut) Guild: Outlanders


        • #8
          having a lvl 65 legendary longshot bow can help a lot with pulling also. that extra 5 meters will allow anyone to pull 1 mob at a time.

          oh and also for cv the boss will not fear you if you can keep it slowed and the tank keeps its distance. Restrain on a lb with ab from a cardi is more than enough to keep it from fearing.


          • BahlUni
            BahlUni commented
            Editing a comment
            The added range from the legend bow will indeed make it a little safer for the careless, but you can pull singles with any bow.

            I mainly wrote this ug basic stuff for temps, but slowing is indeed OP. A cardi has 4 slows of his own and could get and keep a boss at max - move within seconds. Any other char that could do a single slow at the start would make this safer. That doesn't have to be a temp. When you slow a boss, a temp isn't all that useful during the boss kill. It does work, but there are plenty of alternatives.

            A bow merc is only able to solo level 4s because of the -85% move from restraint coupled with a fairly high damage output with bow.

            Cardi and bow merc are well known for their slowing skills, but there are plenty of ways to slow. Lima's wings are nice, 2 MM can keep up arrow of delay, a magus can keep up a perm 30% etc etc. The most uncommon slow combination is probably a 2/3/0 MB with an ogre. Glacial would do a perm 50%, an ogre 35% on the first debuff and a perm 70% from the second on.

        • #9
          A lot of people have been asking me question about how holy ground works. This happened more frequently when the "feature" of using it (or any dot) to level a fresh toon to t7 in 20 mins became popular. Since it is now a punishable exploit, I would not suggest using it to power level. That doesn't change that the skill is awesome and very far from straightforward. This is how it works:


          When you throw the AoE it can damage an unlimited amount of targets that are in range. It uses macc to see if it damages mobs, you can get cast locked while using it and it adds a debuff + dot if the matk hits. Those DoTs can stack 3 times and last 8 seconds.


          The threat this skill does is based on the damage the matk does.


          Without a card the skill uses 150% of your matk +120 and calculates damage normally. The interval where it does damage at is 3 seconds and it does 5 of these matks. DoTs do ticks every second except when they get refreshed by the matk and they debuff 150 def per stack. If you look at the damage over time it would be like this:

          time - damage type and mod
          0s - 150% matk +120
          1s - 40% patk
          2s - 40% patk
          3s - 150% matk +120
          4s - 80% patk
          5s - 80% patk
          6s - 150% matk +120
          7s - 120% patk
          8s - 120% patk
          9s - 150% matk +120
          10s - 120% patk
          11s - 120% patk
          12s - 150% matk +120
          13s - 120% patk
          14s - 120% patk
          15s - 120% patk
          16s - 120% patk
          17s - 120% patk
          18s - 120% patk
          19s - 120% patk​
          20s - 120% patk​

          Since temps got a good amount of matk, you would expect that high matk would matter a lot if things die fast. That is true for ursa bears, but it is often not the case. Like most AoE's, the matk will do a lot less damage if you use it on a large number of targets. The DoT damage will stay the same regardless of the amount of targets.

          For some setups it might be useful to up your matk nonetheless. The matk damage the game uses is based on the stats you have when you cast it. The patk DoTs however use your current values for calculating damage. If you mainly rely on this skill to field farm it might be a good idea to max both p and matk on belt and use a staff (pref 1h) and swap to a mace and shield after casting.

          Card +:

          For some reasons the devs broke added damage down in to what the card adds and a damage reflection rate. The damage reflection rate is a multiplier to the damage matk including the part from the card. I didn't calculate fixed and % card benefits for +, but my +6 adds close to 40% to the matk part. It helps up your threat, but the actual damage increase is a lot less since it doesn't add to the patk DoT at all.


          Q: Why do I lose aggro to resto (or any low heal) after using HG on the whole room?
          A: It is extremely likely that your level + macc isn't high enough to hit all the mobs. Either up your macc or try a different tactic until you level up more.

          Q: Why don't my DoT's land on bosses while they are standing in a field while I don't miss any of my attacks?
          A: Lack of macc.

          Q: Why do I lose aggro in UG to people that wait and do less damage than me with HG?
          A: Most of the damage done by this skill on large pulls is from the patk dot. That does not add to your threat. Your threat is based on the matk the skill does. That gets heavily reduced when you use it on a large number of mobs. A good card and matk belt pets + reflecting shield would help a small bit. The main problem is that the skill wasn't designed to be an automatic AoE tanking skill and with all the freezes, stuns and delays it is sometimes the only thing you can use. Using a staff for HG would help, but weapon swapping when mobs are almost on top of you isn't the best idea in high level UG / circus.


          • #10
            So, I read your guide, and noticed that atak boost from b.def will be 40%, not far from what I have today (70% becouse I only have 1 TP on that tree)
            So, im really into making a tab f1 build. Only thing I can think right now is, change b.def stones for crit. Will be hard to trade all my gear for feral, and I will not count with it. Any suggestions for a att speed build?


            • BahlUni
              BahlUni commented
              Editing a comment
              I also suggested it for your belt setup, bc, stones, belt pets and loss of provoke

              I don't know what you want to do until the next epic. If you want to try to tank, you should do ok enough spamming in a dp. That should get you 160 before e9 goes live. Getting att speed plateaus would be much easier in a 160 set. You might want to consider at least restoning to crit+vit and try to replace the boots and gloves with primals or ferals.

              I mentioned I didn't plan on posting builds before testing them in the next epic. Partly because there are some unknowns in the next epic, also because a lot of the stat incs are random and lastly because the gear cost increases exponentially making +25 gear far less common than +20s.

              I'll give you some pointers though. If you don't plan on using hv, cs wings and pieces I would suggest aiming for 502 in a buffed setup that is most common for you. The 10ish att speed you can get on gloves along with the 18ish % block rate on both armor and gloves can help. Of course you can also use more useful stats if you don't need them to get to the plat. The same goes for soul stones, att speed awakenings and dura / defining bonuses on weapons and shield, belt pets etc. How many sacrifices you have to make will be a combination of your buffs, your luck on random stats and funds.

              If you can afford a +25 shield (along with getting the TP you miss) and have a good active guard card you could hit 502 without attack speed belt pets, stones, buffs and pieces. It does have a very bad cost - benefit ratio and wouldn't suggest doing so (unless you are going for 959). +21 seems to be doable and might become almost as common as +20s are now.

              You can make 502 builds with a +20 shield, but then you hav eto make some sacrifices or rely more heavily on buffs / procs. Most will probably use a higher shield. If you gear away from damage per hit and or defense you can reach those plats much sooner. Having some spare gear to swap to with different defining / stones or swapping belt pets based on buffs is usually a good idea as well.

              There are a lot of setups that might be ideal for a specific setup. More common ones will probably include 3s1 dt + 2s4 yeti + bc,, 3s5 hawks + 2s4 skells +bc and s1 dt / s5 kent / 3s1 wd+ bc.

            • Saguii
              Saguii commented
              Editing a comment
              I know, its hard to make a build out of nowhere. Well, I plan on tanking well (take less damage as possible), with a 502 att speed plateau. I don't like spamming becouse I have a huge issue with lag/spikes/ping whatever. So, the main focus is, tank and attack fast.
              For now, ill stick with the current stones, will only get an anessa belt and the hawkman belt thing. I'll test later, on next epic, crit vs bdef, to see if damage ill deal will be worth the bdef ill lost. Anyway, ty for your patience and help.

            • BahlUni
              BahlUni commented
              Editing a comment
              It's not that it's hard to make builds. I made several test ones, but those are based on my own setup (hv, full buffs, cs wings, ug gear etc) along with a +20 shield and an estimation of what higher shields might add. They were meant to give an idea of what should be possible. I would suggest a stat builder if you want to check with various buffs or you could calculate it yourself if you are using unbuffed builds. .

              I see tanking as a little more than just taking low damage. The 3s5 hawks will help, but they'll give you slightly lower stats. The added slot it frees up should more than make up for that though. Do get a medusa card. It adds a good amount of def and bdef, a tiny amount of hp and around 900 patk when you get your tps.

              I'm not sure if you'll reach min damage unbuffed in first cube room, but you might or should at least be very close to it. Think it needed around 12-14 kish def + bdef, but I might be wrong there. If you are and have an ok heal pet with nice gear, you should at least try dropping some bdef for crit stones, feral ring and neck and using a koala / snowman belt and pot as well. Possibly belt 2 if you aren't close to 100%. If you get there with one, belt an matk pet since it will help with hg AoEing.

              In the current epic single pulls in your defensive setup would probably take about 8-10* longer to clear the first room compared to an offensive AoE one (with mirror amp).

          • #11
            The new provoke toggle adds 1% more threat per +, but it only works on basic hits. So these cards will get a lot more useful.

            I'll add some info about shields. I lost the stats on a +20 circus shield, but I do know it adds 100 block per.

            +20 d2 mc: bdef 1135(+894) plock per 98 (+71)
            +21 circus shield: bdef 1392 (+1127) block per 118 (+89)
            +22 circus shield: bdef 1642 (+1377) block per 138 (+109)
            +23 circus shield: bdef 1911 (+1646) block per 160 (+131)
            +24 circus shield: bdef 2197 (+1932) block per 182 (+153)
            +25 circus shield: bdef 2501 (+2236) block per (206 (+177)


            • WarriorZ
              WarriorZ commented
              Editing a comment
              Did u try tanking with this toggle yet, its pretty horrible.

            • BahlUni
              BahlUni commented
              Editing a comment
              I haven't actually played PTS so no

              I did do some tanking tests by not using provoke at all on live servers. That was fine in offensive setups, but I expect it would be tougher to do so when this epic goes live. Doubt the added aggro from provoke coupled with the lower bdef for patk and the relative much smaller incs on a high enchanted 1h mace compared to the much higher atk values on 2h weapons would make this a fun experience 959 plat might help somewhat, but I'm not sure how terrible that will be against +25 geared skill spammers.

              These changes will be toughest on non maxed out, defensive geared temps without hvs. If they are supposed to keep aggro, I would expect some big aggro or damage boosts in future updates.

          • #12
            If you have not tried an evasion build templar you are missing out. With my setup I get over 1700 evasion which makes it cake to solo in circus.


            • BahlUni
              BahlUni commented
              Editing a comment
              I like evasion, but you can do lvl1 runs with less. In fact I have slightly faster dungeon clear times with a s5 harp relic and maxed def, patk, matk on belt. Both at 502.

              The main reason why I prefer using an evasion unity and one s5 uni belted is because I can keep using mephisto for the entire run and heal with pots and scrolls. If I use an attack speed setup, I tend to have to swap back and forth from mephisto to lunacy at least once per run. It's more work, but it isn't exactly hard. The time benefit from the added ks is that small that it doesn't allow me to do more runs during an amp.

              But if you get delays fast or don't want to swap bc's do go for evasion. I wouldn't really use 2 eva belt pets unless you lag badly. If you need the attack speed unity to get to a plat and you don't delay fast, I would go for a harp relic.

            • Skeetskeet
              Skeetskeet commented
              Editing a comment
              Generally I stay at the 502 atk spd with 3wds boss card and either kentas or unis, soul of lunacy don't need heals at all.

            • BahlUni
              BahlUni commented
              Editing a comment
              I don't know what kind of gears you use, but your 3 wd+ 2 uni + lunacy setup is far from ideal. It might be needed for you to keep lunacy on perm and use 2 unis if you take a lot of damage. If you like those amounts of dodges and heals I would at least suggest swapping some matk for patk on belt.

              The third vid in the post below this is a random circus run I did in my eva setup. I'm using a +21 circus mace and +20 ug armor in it. If you use similar gears and don't skip mobs, you would take longer to do your runs with your belt pet setup..

          • #13
            gostei dessa build attack speed, vou tentar faze-la em meu templário..

            hoje não chego aos 400 de attack speed...

            " Mineirinha - Bapho"


            • BahlUni
              BahlUni commented
              Editing a comment
              Pode ser difícil de alcançar sem o equipamento certo, lustres e um alto escudo encantado. Também por favor, tente postar em Inglês da próxima vez.

            • Mineirinho
              Mineirinho commented
              Editing a comment
              surely will,
              seems more than compensates,
              if you look at the statistics achieved.

              already tenhu one circus + 20 shield ... I think so I reached my speed without much effort ...

              ug for set 3, which optional recomenta ??
              I realized that only per block increases my attack speed ...

              I put the rest with belt pets?

              my build today, facing this vit / critical ..

            • BahlUni
              BahlUni commented
              Editing a comment
              I meant that it would be tough to make 959 I would aim for 502 if you use a +20 shield. Read the post above this for all possible attack speed incs. I try not to use as little brate on boots, armor and to made as few sacrifices for attack speed on belt as needed to reach 502 / 959. But I have a very high upped shield and good awakenings.

          • #14
            Here is a video of my Templar on 959 attack speed, Temps can be pretty brutal.


            • BahlUni
              BahlUni commented
              Editing a comment
              Nice vid and keep up the good work

          • #15
            that pet can be used in the belt, i am TEMPLAR


            • BahlUni
              BahlUni commented
              Editing a comment
              You can use a great many pets on belt. The setup I like most for s4 PP is a 959 setup with 3 staged drills, s5 DT and s5 kent on belt. It adds 33% vit / pdef / wis / mdef, 32% str / patk, 12% att speed. If I get heaven, I swap the DT for either a cerb or an ogre. It has rather steep requirements on gears and buffs. It is a setup made for running head on into a full rooms of witches and to still do good damage against bosses. For most temps this would be a rather useless and needlessly expensive setup.

              I can't advise any belt pets based on what you told me. I did mention some pets for spam builds under 3e in the original post, depending on what you do, you might want to add evasion or matk. I added a few att speed setups in this: