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Noire Complains About Void Mages!

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  • Noire Complains About Void Mages!

    Aaaaas usual, I'll be going through pretty much every skill, unless I miss out on them accidentally and giving my opinion. So, there will no doubt be a lot of controversial comments. So! From the top:

    Sadism: First and completely out of order because I think it's probably the most important (and controversial) skill VMs have. I do not feel VMs should be able to heal themselves with every attack, simple as that. Initially I thought nerfing it to 5% was a bit harsh. However, I think it may still be too strong as it is. Any skill, which allows a class to solo pretty much anything without a worry is over powered and broken. Be it Essence of Invulnerability, Shadow Forged Plating, Sadism, or anything else.

    However, "balancing" Sadism is most likely and impossible task. It's not as overpowered as before, however the constant stream of regained HP is incredibly strong on a class which is not meant to tank! Mages have been the tanks for many things since Corsola started to tank in Cube (maybe even before) and the Universal armour will only make mages more appealing. So, whether it's VM's Sadism, or Corruptor's Vampirism that fuels their skins (yes I'm going to complain about this when Corruptors get their turn), the Asura mages in particular have been very blessed.

    It is not up to me to suggest changes to skills, however I will happily give my opinions, and after a lot of consideration I feel that Sadism is still too strong (power to the warriors!).

    Life Leech: Works fine, heals for a lot of HP, the CD is reasonable, no issues here.

    Fireball: My only issue with this is it does have quite a long cast, longer than more powerful spells like Dark Spiral. Other than that, it works.

    Lightning: Low damage, low chance of stunning a target for 3 seconds. Since it is a single target spell with low damage it simply isn't useful anymore.

    Life Transfer: Completely useless, transfers less than 1,000 HP to the target.

    Nightmare: It works, but CC isn't in high demand anymore.

    Flame Burn: Not as strong as Fireball as VMs get only 10 levels of it, however it does reasonable damage still.

    Windy Shackle: Single target attack speed debuff. It has a long CD, and only affects a single target for a short duration, but there's nothing broken about it really.

    Weakness Skin: I like that it's a % pdef debuff now, I do miss the 5min duration and I would like it to be sustainable. However it works much better than before.

    Corpse HP/MP Drain: Not worth using as the fixed amounts are far too low compared to your HP/MP.

    Fire and Lightning Field: Nothing wrong with these as they are.

    Corruption: Completely overpowered and broken! Or not, 13 second DoT, 15 second CD, ticks every 2 seconds for less damage than a melee hit. Pointless.

    Fire Storm: The DoT from this is reasonable, it ticks every second and is about as strong as Flame Burn. The 1 min CD is quite long, however it isn't broken.

    Splash Thunder: Decent damage, AoE stun with 75% chance of stunning, CD is reasonable, so I don't have any issues with it.

    Darkness Arrow: Long animation low damage, single target attack. Ok, the 30 seconds CD isn't bad since I think it used to be much more. But it simply doesn't do any damage. VMs get the better version of it as they get more levels however it is still.... Really weak and not worth using.

    Fire Blast: Long cast time, 1 min CD but really weak attack. As it's a pre-MC skill which has never been adjusted it's still stuck in Epic 5 or... Whenever. It's simply not worth using when MC spams do more damage in the same time.

    Thunder Slayer: I haven't really tested this since it was changed. Due to it having a cone shaped area of effect it has never been as useful as other AoEs despite its strength. I would love to see a nice "lightning blade" animation like the description says, but that's a dream. Personally, I don't feel it's worth using as it is, despite the boosts.

    Dark Spiral: CM's best skill by far, and gained a nice boost recently to make it relevant in the game once more. It is, very powerful. I can't say it's too strong, because it is meant to be REALLY strong, but I can't say that it needs boosting further either.

    Magic Skin and Neutralise Magic: Not really much use on VM as they don't have the same MP recovery abilities as Corruptors to make good use of them. However, personally I feel that the % of damage taken to MP is too high. Corruptors still need heals, but their skins enable them to take less damage than some tanks with very little negative consequences.

    Spell Breaker: Cancels casting, causes silence on everything but bosses. Very strong PvP, but far less useful PvE. Even though it's a short silence and 30 second CD, given the fact that many bosses now use spells frequently, being able to silence them would be useful in a party.

    Dispel Magic: So, the description has changed from "Removes lasting Effects" to "Removes damage over time effects" Does that mean it removes Yushiva's heal? Or does it simply work in the same relatively useless way it used to? At least the CD is only 3 mins instead of 10 so you can annoy people by removing their DT buff more often, right? :\

    Meteor Shower: More powerful than Fire Field, but doesn't hit every second. Unfortunately, most parties don't want mobs running around in a panic anymore. It will be useful in certain situations, emergencies and if you like mass PK'ing for example, however despite the damage, I tend not to use it as it frequently causes mobs to leave the damage area of itself and other field skills. The skill card for this doesn't really do anything as it's a fixed amount. I'm not sure it gets much more damage from extra levels. However more levels do reduce the CD. It works, it does what it's supposed to. It's just that I don't find it useful due to the fear effect. It gives you 10 seconds of most mobs not being able to hit you, which is already a powerful effect. So, maybe it could be given a less powerful effect to make it more desirable to use PvE (even though VMs have a lots of AoE damage).

    Heaven's Breaker: Less useful than Splash Thunder despite the longer stun. The 5 minute (is it really still 5 mins?) CD limits its usefulness, the damage is reasonable and the 3 second stun is too. I wouldn't object to reducing the CD, however VMs have a lot of AoE damage, and Splash Thunder is a good AoE stun. I think my problem comes from the fact that Heaven's Breaker use to always feel like the vastly superior version (despite that CD).

    Heed of the Conjuror, Spirit of Fire and Tempest: Altogether they drastically increase the damage a VM does. I don't have any issues with their duration. I think my issue is that they increase the damage by such a degree. They are the skills which make VM such a potent damage dealer.

    Haste of Conjuror: Enables instant spell casting of a single spell. I do miss the old effect of having a busrt of no cast time spells, however as you can get the effect to be semi permanent now that would be broken. Unfortunately, unless you are in to PvP, VMs don't really have any spells which benefit from the zero cast time any longer. So, to me at least, this is a skill of VERY limited usefulness.

    Apostle of Darkness: I find it incredibly difficult to actually measure the usefulness of this skill. Pignore is easy to see the difference, but Mignore/pierce is far more difficult. As such, I have no idea of whether it actually does anything.

    Crushing Shadows: Is a waste of TP. 100% chance to inflict -12% mdef and -10% movespeed on a target when you use Shade spells for a maximum of 13 seconds, and apparently stacks 3 times, I have just never tested it. If VMs had enough shad spells to maintain this, then it may have some usefulness. But, they don't. Noticing any difference in damage due to mdef reduction is incredibly difficult, as such. I stand by my initial statement that it is a waste of TP. Completely useless.

    Abyssal Grip: Inflicts some damage and Hold on a target for 4 seconds, with a 50 second CD. It's weak, it's single target, it's a short duration with a lengthy CD. It's really not very useful. It's an abyssal grip, it could reduce movement or attack speed or something. But as it is, it's not really of much use.

    Sharp Tongue: Increases your resistance to Silence effects. It works, some bosses use silence, so you will sometimes resist those. It's just not incredibly useful.

    Crystal Aura: It works, personally I have no issues with how it works, so... I don't see any problems with it.

    Chain Lightning: Spamable AoE, short cast, short CD, nice damage. Noire likes.

    Grim Attrition: Noire doesn't like. Adds a % of your int to the damage your DoTs deal. However, it's an incredibly small increase and... Why do VMs get this not Corruptors who are more DoTty? It's not broken, it's just.... Not very useful.

    Time Lapse: When you deal direct damage (not damage from a field spell) you have a chance to reduce the CD of your skills by 5 seconds. It does help to reduce your cooldowns, I just wish I knew the activation % It's not broken, it's quite useful, so I have no issues.

    Chrono Shift: Reduces the CD of all your skills (except itself and Grace that was fixed a long time ago) by 100%. 6 min CD. I just have never felt the need for this skill. I'm sure there are people who think it's really useful since they don't need a second TP in the first column. I just never find myself thinking "I wish that skill didn't have a CD right now!" It does what it's supposed to. I just don't like it.

    So, that's VM skills in my opinion. They can get quite a bit of HP due to the Asuran Resilience changes, the other races got the short end of the stick. I don't feel that VMs should not only out DD every other class, but be able to maintain their HP while they do so. As such, I feel they are still a class which requires more "balance".

    Before people ask me if I even play a VM, and why am I complaining about them so much. Yes, I play VM, it was my first character. I do enjoy playing it, however I feel that it is so much stronger than many other classes that it does require some attention. VMs are supposed to be AoE monsters, but they're also supposed to be very squishy as a result. They used to NEED Darkness Saver. I would like some skills being made useful, but I would also like to see some abilities reduced, in the name of balance.

  • #2
    This is not an direct answer to Noire, but to pretty much everything that has been said in the class balance section about Void mages.

    My opinions

    I think sadism is fine how it is now. It is not that easy to get your hp back now, get few too many stuns/petrifys and you might just be dead. I think it would also be fine if it would not trigger 100%, but instead would give a lot more hp back than it does now. Similar like how Corruptors vampirism works. (how it used to be before the sadism boost last year)

    I also think that heed/haste/tempest are fine how they are now. They give nice boost, but in order to get that you need to buff quite often, and some people even go through changing full set of gears for that. I think that is just the price you pay for those buffs. I don't think those VM buffs need any kind of nerf.

    There has been some suggestion on the skills and skill trees on VM. I think every class has something broken, useless or outdated in their skill trees and should be fixed, like Fire Blast or Darkness Arrow.

    I don't think VM should have any better cc's than it has now, Corruptor should shine in that department and VM should be the better damage dealer.
    Apostole of Darkness already gives VM -20% m.ignore as passive, Corruptor has decent mind crisis debuff now, but it is only for single target. VM does not need improving on this one.

    What many people are missing in these class balance topics is, that they are only seeing the class in youtube video with +25 all, all possible buffs/cs items/event items/guild buffs/etc. and therefore think that the class is overpowered in some aspect.
    I'm not telling to take an unbuffed player with +10 staff as an example, but something more reasonable than what i mentioned above.

    These class balance topics are also scary because in worst case this will be like the Cardinal catastrophe few years ago, when devs overdid it only because so many people were complaining on forums. They made the class almost unplayable.

    And i do have to say something about Corruptors and skins and Vampirism.

    There is a very high price you pay playing with max level skins in order to get damage reduction. Corruptor still needs tons of heals despite the skins, and constant DDing to keep up the mp. Get few too many stuns/fears/petrifys or other cc's and you end up dead fast. And even if you by some miracle stay alive, then your mp pool is usually empty, rendering Corruptor useless.

    But let's leave that for the Corruptor "balance" topic later, i know what is coming up there.
    Doomcaster 177 War Kahuna (Quitted)
    Pyromancio 186 Corruptor (Also Quitted)


    • Noire
      Noire commented
      Editing a comment
      I can't really disagree with anything you have said, because they are all fair points.

      I have been playing my Corruptor a lot recently, which was got me thinking about skins. Ok, if you use them and you don't keep an eye on things.... You will kiss the floor. Or, you'll die because you forgot to rebuff them. However, if you play intelligently (I don't always) they greatly reduce the damage you take.

      I should really test Mind Crisis on something...

      I try my best to go through each class, and draw attention to the outdated skills because.... Who wants to have useless skills on their bars? Or even worse, simply have the one skill on your bars that you spam endlessly.

      Tested Mind Crisis, on a Corr with HV buffs only against Rota Skeletons, Golem and Slaughter bosses, it gave me an average increase of 200k per spam on each, which is about a 10% increase from -70% mdef. Which, compared to pdef, is not much of a difference. I think it mainly comes frm the fact skills in general use a lot more attack than patk basic hits. As basics are what benefit most from pdef debuffs.
      Last edited by Noire; 01-10-17, 09:12 PM.