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Laraki's Real Thoughts on Slayer (@ Epic 9.6 Launch - Initial Impressions)

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  • Laraki's Real Thoughts on Slayer (@ Epic 9.6 Launch - Initial Impressions)

    Disclosure:
    This is my initial impressions - patch has been out for all of 2 days, that is not a long enough time to come to solid conclusions.


    Intro:


    In this Section, I will go through each skill included in patch notes, and tell you what I think was Good and Bad for each, and how I would change it if it were in my power to do so.

    Shadowforged plating:


    Above my minimum compelling values are what I believe would be the lowest acceptable change that would actually cause Shadowforged Plating to be a "compelling option" to slot onto gear in order to increase build diversity and make it of similar overall strength to Phase Blades. I do not feel it would come close to actually creating balance in the current state of the classes when slayer is compared to other options. The only way I feel you're going to be able to do that is to look at other classes stronger than slayer and adjust their values to be lower, right now this is Templar, Void Mage, Corruptor (Possibly), Overlord afaik - and to look at any class that is weaker, and adjust it's values to be higher.

    Phase Blades:


    Bloody Blade:


    Hellstorm:


    Pact With Darkness:


    Avoidance Expert:


    Oblivion:


    Blinding Dust:


    After Image:


    Adrenaline:


    React:


    Phantasm:


    *Under Construction - Updated - March 28, 2019*
    In this section I will talk about the patch, balance, things that were not changed but which I want to see, the game as a whole, as well as things which go unsaid in the above.

    Caveats:


    Things I want to see:


    Balance:


    The State of the Game:


    What goes unsaid:
    Last edited by Laraki; 29-03-19, 01:48 AM.

  • #2
    You lost me at the first line in SFP. Where are the Distortion of Rage, Oblivion, and Cloak of Shadows, or equivalents for the other actual tanking classes?

    Those skills all have one thing in common, they are designed to reduce threat. Let that sink in, as we go over what a tank's role in a party is: To maintain threat on mobs that the party is currently engaging, to be able to mitigate the damage that this implies, and not be a resource sponge on the healer. Why would a tank class have skills that run counter to this? So SFP is now equivalent to a Fighter/Holy Warrior's Provoke. As we can see, in this very update, that skill wasn't enough, hence Templar got a buff to a lot of it's skills to help do the job it was designed to do, tank. Meanwhile, Slayer got it's overall damage output, the only reliable way a Slayer is going to get or keep threat, reduced. Slayer got it's primary damage mitigation, Evasion, nerfed as well. So how is this going to be a "true tank"?

    Comment


    • Robertthebard
      Robertthebard commented
      Editing a comment
      Yep, that would have totally changed the way those skills work, wouldn't it???

    • Fearia
      Fearia commented
      Editing a comment
      In france we got E4 for few month so I'll speak mainly for E5 and after, but I have to confirm that we had some excellent tanks who were assassins in wolf parties and on the island.
      As soon as a class have a warrior armor, it can tank. Either if it takes aggro with its dps (assassin, which get Distortion of Rage, Oblivion, and Cloak of Shadows to lose aggro when it is not supposed to tank) or with its fictive threat (Knight), or with a mix of both (soldier and champion).

    • Robertthebard
      Robertthebard commented
      Editing a comment
      As I've been pointing out in all of the discussion about this, where is the Knight's aggro dumping mechanic/skills? They don't have them. Why don't they have them? Because they are supposed to be a tank. Soldiers, Mercs, Fighters and Champs don't have them either, and for the same reason. Holding aggro on a single mob isn't tanking, that's what you do when you solo, unless you're using HLPs, which is, I'm afraid, how a lot of the "but this class can do it" myths get started. There are no active skills for "oh crap" moments, when a healer pulls heal aggro, or when that mage hits an AoE at the wrong time. Especially now, with the nerf to PAtk/MAtk that comes with turning on SFP, and the nerf to crit. There is no huge Vit bump to make up for losing a percentage of your primary damage mitigation either, which is what happened when they decided to nerf Evasion too. So you're a DPS class with a tank based toggle, and no tanking skills, but hey, you can always use Distortion of Rage, and Cloak of Shadows so you can scroll res your party as needed, right?

  • #3
    I like most of what I hear, but some counterpoints. If I dont counter it, I agree with it.

    Blinding dust: As slayer is now, blinding dust has to be close to permanent to be able to solo S6 - for higher geared players - without using the debilitating toggle. I wouldn't give it 0 CD, but I'd make it close to permanent

    Slayers evasion: Slayers evasion was never too high for me. I reached about 7k, which meant half the attacks were evaded, maybe more. If the intention is to keep sfp as it is, I would boost slayers evasion to close to what it was. That is, revert pact and adrenaline (keep avoidance as it is).
    if slayer is to be a 'tank', it should reasonably be able to evade, seeing as it cant reach the HP of other 'tanks'. That way, you dont need SFP to tank bosses. It gives us some breathing room for lower stages.

    React: As you get closer to end game, you build a lot of % damage reductions. Halving the damage reduction from this seems fair. Keep it as it is now.

    Afterimage: I hear it up half the time now? That seems ok. I like the idea of a third hit, but consider this: reduce the chance to activate to around a quarter of the time, and make it give the current phantasm buff.

    General comment: if you dont plan to remove sfp, then the damage on damage build should increase. Doing 3m on main hand is too low, for a maximum geared slayer. Their reasoning is, dd or tank, not both. Therefore, they could change sfp to counteract the increase in damage, BUT increase damage!

    They have to at the least return the damage we had before. If I believed they'd take it, I'd suggest to increase non SFP damage than it was before - and reduce damage further when using SFP but dont go crazy, aim for keeping the sfp damage values as they are now.

    This seems fair to me. When you're running with 150k hp, then surely you deserve more damage compared to when you were running 300k HP. When you're running 700k HP, your damage should be less than half of what it was when you were running 300k hp.

    Some reference values: I was doing 4m in s4. I would at the non sfp values take that to 4.5m, and at sfp values bring it down to 1.5m(as it is now)
    -----

    These are general comments tbh, and I'm not suggesting one ulterior build for slayer. I don't mean it for all to be taken at the same time. Take what you like.

    Lastly: any change to slayer should be done in a reasonable time frame. Anything longer than 3 months is a slap in the face
    Last edited by Hitsuyga; 23-03-19, 04:12 PM.
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    • #4
      I have updated my post to include my thoughts on balance overall in the balance section at the bottom.
      Last edited by Laraki; 29-03-19, 01:37 AM.

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