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Laraki's Thoughs on Slayer

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  • Laraki's Thoughs on Slayer

    Hello Laraki here, been playing strider since the end of epic 2 beginning of epic 3, with lots of breaks in between, and here we are now.

    I'd say overall class balance wise, slayer is in a good spot right now (at the release of 9.5, BEFORE other classes have received buffs) . It's strong, it's a class that can pretty much do everything, it can pvp, it can farm, it can tank, it can deal damage, it's not the BEST at any of those things, but it's good at all of them.

    So what do I have gripes with? Well I'll be honest and come right out and say that my major concern was how heavy handed you guys were with the nerfing of shadowforged plating, I feel that the Korean dev's probably had a good reason for the initial values being as high as they were, and i don't feel that you guys likely had basis enough to reduce it the way you did, and now it's extremely worrying that after the other classes have had their balances, slayer could end up in a very weak position because of this.

    That out of the way, I may as well give some opinion that adds value to the conversation from my unique standpoint playing the class through its evolution for so long. As far back as epic 4, assassin has been a tanking class, it's been a sustained damage tank class (damage over time, no useful pve burst, but no real slow periods in damage) . Notable about the assassin is that the assassin has always had HP on par with other tanking classes, however considerably lower inherent defenses - assassins (and slayers) do not have any skills to temporarily boost hard defenses like damage reduction or armor, and they suffer from low armor inherently, always have, because their passives are not aligned for it. Other classes have skills to give % reduced damage taken for a time period and things like this, slayer does not. I feel the korean dev's may have been more aware of this history and been trying to give the slayer a very high health pool because of it, knowing that that large hp value doesn't necessarily equal out to a tankier character, and knowing that because of this slayers gain less effect from heals / heal pets, etc, and are therefore more reliant on getting higher values for heals (Soul of Lunacy Card/ Bloody Blade). Another thing to consider about the slayer is that it is a very gear dependent class, you've got to dump either a lot of time, or a lot of money, or both, into a slayer to make it useful, it relies upon having high + on weapon, and we need to enhance two weapons not just 1, it relies upon a high + on armor to make up for it's built in squishiness as well.

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    ^--- that right there is my main concern, after that I will just post less important opinions, things i think the class can benefit from or has problems with below ----v
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    So minor concern's here:

    edit: 0.1: The skill smoke bomb, I actually quite like the skill as it is currently in terms of the damage and utility it provides and the cooldown, however there is a problem with the skill in and that when you go to cast it, it requires that it be casted on the floor, and if you try to click the floor through mobs, even though there is an aoe indicator on the floor, if mobs are in the path between your cursor and the floor the skill will not go off until you click on the floor directly, this makes the skill hard to use in certain situations and hard to be able to cast where you want it casted.

    edit: 0.2: a problem that i have noticed with slayer for some time now, which might be difficult to fix from a developer perspective, is that when you are auto attacking and you go to click on another skill, due to the high attack speed of slayer and procs of assassin's impact/phantasm, you end up with a considerable lag between when you click a skill and when the skill actually goes off, this can be problematic in situations where you're trying to stun a mob to save your pet for example, it would be amazing if we could somehow get this lag removed without removing dps from the slayer. I believe it is caused by a desynch between the rolls of assassins impact / the attack animation and there perhaps being a queue where attacks/skills are being placed waiting to go off that is not emptying fast enough (perhaps in situations where this lag is present that skill could be moved to the head of the queue), but another concern then is that after a skill does go off, there is a lag between where you click to resume auto attacking and when the character actually begins auto attacking again, this also can make using skills on slayer hard because you know you will lose some damage during that time.

    1: with the pace of pvp being what it currently is, the cooldown time on cloak of shadow has made the skill almost irrelevant - historically a slayer could cloak during a fight and use that time to escape and recooperate somewhat to go in for another attempt at a kill, just pointing this out as im not sure that it does actually fit into the current pvp.

    2. Slayer does have a lot of skills that have been made obsolete / you pretty much never really want to click them, and this is coming from a slayer that actually has those skills on the skill bar, and still to this day, will click them occassionally (on purpose): Dark Strike, Charge Stab, Deadly Dancing, Shadow Wound, (Sonic Cross not even worth mentioning it along with the bow skills)

    3. You nerfed Shadow Stab damage for pvp from what I recall from the patch notes, have not actually had a chance to test it out in pvp yet but I can say this for a certainty: If shadow stab currently deals less damage in pvp than a twilight strike (not sure if it does) cast with the same + on cards you completely broke the point of the skill, there has to be some trade off to cloaking prior to use, the skill was always intended to be our only form of "burst" for pvp (well we did get some burst from deadly dancing but not really the same thing as the skill takes time to go off). (Shadow Stab is not really super applicable to any pve situation, it can be used but its borderline pointless, which is okay i think, but if thats how its gonna be then it probably ought to be useful in pvp at least).

    4. Build diversity - slayer has a clear choice between one of a couple different builds, the main choice being whether to use swords or daggers, from a historical standpoint daggers have always been the weaker choice, but if we're going to introduce a choice and reinforce it with skills, it probably should make sense to pick it. As it stands, with the current state of end game items -> Physical luminous wing, Hector Card, etc... it's questionable if daggers are actually a sensible choice, and that even before the nerf to shadowforged plating. I definitely feel there is good opportunity within Shadowforged plating, Poison Mastery, and Envenom, to explore actually introducing real build diversity to this class and you guys are kindof missing it, They ought to be about equal strength just with slight advantages here and there depending which u pick, not 1 is a clear victor over the other. Again, this has always been a problem with the assassin class, but just pointing it out.

    5. I personally would like it, if since we reduced the base duration on slayer stuns to 2 seconds, if they would be given a higher additional duration from cards, especially dusk gaze, slayer has a variety of stuns that is true, however many of them are very difficult to use, the cloak ones were difficult to use even back when you could cloak very frequently and 1 shotting people was not a thing that happened ever, now with the cloak cooldown what it is our ability to cc / stunlock has really been nerfed into the ground, and im not really sure why you felt this was necessary, considering there are other classes who can 100% perma stun multiple characters simultaneously for an indefinite period of time AND 1 shot them, not sure where the balance is in that sorry.

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    Chiming in with Other Posters Opinions:
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    - Someone mentioned that Oblivion was pretty much useless and that there could actually be some good group utility to be gained from the skill in a situation where you had a slayer as a damage dealer in a group, would have to agree with that.


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    Things I like:
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    I actually really like the current flow of farming with the slayer, cooldown time on hellstorm and apocalypse work pretty beautifully together to allow for some decent aoe coverage that slayer has never really had before, and I'd actually like to see every class be able to do this, not just slayer, and not just voidmage/corruptor as it has been in the past. AOE has always been kindof a game breaking thing in rappelz, it's the kind of thing that if 1 class can do it, every class really has to be able to do it in order for the leaderboard to be fair at all, especially if you're going to award prizes to people for first to hit xxx level.
    Last edited by Laraki; 08-10-17, 02:54 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Laraki View Post
    Another thing to consider about the slayer is that it is a very gear dependent class, you've got to dump either a lot of time, or a lot of money, or both, into a slayer to make it useful, it relies upon having high + on weapon, and we need to enhance two weapons not just 1, it relies upon a high + on armor to make up for it's built in squishiness as well.
    After taking 1 day to get to masterclass and another day to get to 160, i equipped my slayer with +12 and +10 circus dirks, +8 armor/boots/gloves and went to farm RoA, standing in the middle of the mobs, tanking them all, doing my thing. Dont even have phase blade skill on any of my armors, its all pretty much just junk, and yet i was never in the orange zone on my hp. Yes, i had full buffs, hv buff, but my slaves arent equipped with +10 cards and all PW gears, they are very average, so i wouldnt really say that a slayer is all that cash-intense, infact its very cheap to make a build that actually gets you farming at many palces where other classes would need +20+

    Comment


    • Laraki
      Laraki commented
      Editing a comment
      Can you provide screenshots with your gear visible and your stat window open? And is this with a hector card and physical circus wings? These things are not things that a new player would be able to get a hold of easily, they take considerable time or currency and must be taken into account.
      Last edited by Laraki; 08-10-17, 02:56 PM.

  • #3
    Originally posted by Sylv View Post

    After taking 1 day to get to masterclass and another day to get to 160, i equipped my slayer with +12 and +10 circus dirks, +8 armor/boots/gloves and went to farm RoA, standing in the middle of the mobs, tanking them all, doing my thing. Dont even have phase blade skill on any of my armors, its all pretty much just junk, and yet i was never in the orange zone on my hp. Yes, i had full buffs, hv buff, but my slaves arent equipped with +10 cards and all PW gears, they are very average, so i wouldnt really say that a slayer is all that cash-intense, infact its very cheap to make a build that actually gets you farming at many palces where other classes would need +20+
    dirks... dirks/daggers have an extreme powerup (HP wise) due to SFP, whereas sword just take a very low amount in comparison. Try doing the same with +12 and +10 swords, then come back.

    Other classes who can do the same without ultra mega super gear
    Berserk - Essence of Invulnerability
    Templar - Holy Ground Spam and Block/Block/Block
    Merc - Wild Stream 0CD, Divine Flash 0CD, Remosrelessness + semi decent heal pet
    Dead Eye - Drain Arrow
    Magus - Bleak Squall 0cd, all his mega DoTs, all his OP Heals
    Corr & VM - AoEs of Death Doom Destruction Ninja of Darkness

    thats just the ones from the top of my head. which makes 8 out of 15 classes completely unbalanced and go nerf them all! I vote for BM to become the next OP char please...

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