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Slayers Got Lots of Love, Now They Need Some Attention.

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  • Slayers Got Lots of Love, Now They Need Some Attention.

    Oh boy, did they pick some nice classes for me to complain about this week or what? Slayers AND VMs, AND Templars? This is going to keep me busy for a while.

    I'm not gonna go "Waaaaah, don't like this part of Slayers! Nerf them!" I like to be thorough and go over every skill as I do not like how Master Classes simply cherry picked some skills deciding they were useful while relegating others to pretty looking but ultimately useless!

    However, I am going to complain about that HP... Eventually.

    I will admit, I haven't played my Slayer for a while, and haven't actually geared her up for my analysis, so there may be some aspects which aren't accurate.

    I will probably upset some people however because I feel Assassin skills are based more around stealth, and their means of aggro control is to reduce the threat they generate and avoid attention rather than to draw it. As a warrior, they should however be able to take hits, just not as well as the other three do. They should however evade attacks better than the others as they are all about being agile. So, from the top!

    The Strider skill tree itself is relatively dull as, most of it actually works. The only problem I have is that reaching certain levels of attack speed does render Charge Stab and eventually (although it got a REALLY nice boost) Dark Strike, not worth using.

    Oblivion: -5%(+1 per level) threat reduction. It works, however if you are getting aggro that you don't want, the small reduction probably isn't going to help you.

    Bloody Blade: Damage decreased (slightly), heal reduced (significantly) and CD reduced. No longer an emergency button, but still a useful tool to keep your HP up.

    Deadly Dancing: A very nice looking skill, however now the damage is low, the animation is long and the CD is even longer. Single target attack. Only worth using for the nice animation.

    Sonic Blade: After only an eternity you can use this skill while dual wielding! But, it wasn't worth it, a ranged, single target attack which is incredibly weak and probably not even worth using to get ranged aggro from someone who sneezed in the general direction of the target. 30 sec CD

    Fatal Wave: A bit stronger than Sonic Blade, shoots a wave that hits multiple targets in a line for, some damage. 0.9, really 0.9 seconds cast time? 1 min CD.

    Blinding Dust: I like blinding dust, it's just.... Not really worth using anymore. It can, at high enough levels leave a target permanently blinded thus unable to attack you. However, when you're tanking multiple mobs, blinding one probably won't make much difference. If they made it an AoE p/macc debuff, it would make Slayers a useful support unit to a tank, or.... Enable them to be hit less if tanking. Currently it's only about 4 seconds duration.

    Sleeping Dust: Puts a single target to sleep for a short duration. CC is a lost art, and the majority of Slayers and Assassins simply felt that DD'ing was the only important aspect of the class that they view this as a pointless skill. Currently, it's difficult to think of a use for it. 12.5 sec duration, 1min CD.

    Head Breaker: Another CC, Suffers from the same problems as Sleeping Dust, 6 second duration, 90 sec CD.

    Sonic Cross: A weak, but instant, ranged stun attack. Although it only lasts 2 seconds. Another one of those skills which.... Isn't really of any use in the current game. 1min CD.

    Apocalypse: This is another really nice looking skill! It's also a really long animation, low damage, and gets weaker with more mobs... So.... It's pretty much useless and that's before I mention the 2 minute CD.

    React (Cross Block): It may have taken forever to get Cross Block to work, but at least it FINALLY does something, Up to 10% damage reduction for 55 seconds, that's pretty nice for a stacking buff.

    Shadow Rush: Ok! We actually have a useful, practical skill! It may only be a short stun, but the damage isn't terrible, and it shoots you off towards your target. So, it's useful (that's a rare word for Slayer skills, I can't stress this enough!) skill for when you change targets. The CD is 36 seconds, however it is reduced by 50 or 100% each time a mob is killed. So you can simply switch quickly to your next target.

    Cloak of Shadow: It works, it enables the use of other skills, however I don't know why it has such a long CD. Is it 90, 100 seconds now? They fixed HC mobs, no one goes there anymore any way, ok it's annoying to fight against in PvP, however I don't see anything incredibly broken about it, and there are some nice skills which you can make use of while cloaked.

    Shadow Stab: This gives some nice damage, and makes for a good opening skill on a mob, however you tank and use it as it requires you to cloak. 1min CD, however it's effectively the same as Cloak of Shadow.

    Shadow Crash: Gives a short stun, and some damage to a target when cloaked. In the AoE game Rappelz has become, its usefulness is rather limited. 1min CD.

    Shadow Wound: Inflicts a -70 (I do not like fixed numbers!) accuracy debuff on the target, and a DoT effect which ticks every second. The DoT itself is quite nice, but only -70 acc? Causes you to cloak again after use, 1 min effect duration and 1 min CD.

    Crimson Turbulence: Basically, a weaker Shadow Crash, with a 3 min CD

    The Slayer skill tree! Now, this is where things get..... Interesting? Stupid? Ridiculous? Insert your favourite here ......

    Surge of Adrenaline: Dodging has a chance to give you a buff of +5% Evasion and +2% Crit power, which stacks 7 times, and lasts 30 seconds, which is REALLY nice for a stacking buff effect. It works, it's not game breakingly broken either.

    Smoke Bomb: Places a "field" on the ground, which ticks every second dealing insignificant damage, but a -50% p/macc debuff to all targets, the field lasts 15 seconds, and the effect lasts 10 seconds. So you can get 25 seconds of the debuff with a 1min CD. Which, is OK, but, not really worth the TP investment.

    Short Fuse: Reduces the MP cost of the skill. Really? Ok, it does cost 1,680 MP to use however, I don't think you are likely to hear anyone saying "I wish Smoke Bomb used less MP rather than having the CD reduction it used to have!"

    Hellstorm: A nice AoE, decent damage, reasonable range, and not a terrible CD. The animation is a bit long, however it does give Slayers some ability to AoE.

    Pact with Darkness: Consumes 7 stacks of Adrenaline (lasts 30 seconds) to give you a 30+ minute buff which increases your max HP by 20% and evasion by 15%, that's quite a significant boost, and with all the evasion a Slayer has, it's REALLY easy to maintain.

    Surefooted: Increases your movement speed and gives some attack speed, but lets face it this one isn't important because next we have.....

    SHADOW FORGED PLATING: (It's 15 move speed(+1.5) and 5(+0.5) attack speed if you really must know.

    SHADOW FORGED PLATING: A bit of extra emphasis on this one. Oh boy...... Slayer HP is kinda dumb you know? I mean.... Like.... REALLY dumb, and this is the primary cause of it! 165% or you patk and 300% of your matk are added to your max HP (+35 and 50% per level). This is at level 4. With a +24 helm and DT buff, you get level 8, that's 305% patk and 500% matk! I don't know if Pact with Darkness takes in to account the HP from SFP or not, but either way, Slayers can reach utterly grotesque amounts of HP. I don't have any issues with Slayers having HP, but the fact that they can easily get many times more HP that the other 3 warriors, perhaps even as much as all 3 combined is what bothers me. It's just.... Far higher than it need to be... I don't have any problems with Slayers being able to tank, however giving them so much more HP than the "traditional" tank classes is absurd. Slayers seem to be designed to avoid hits, rather than take them at full force, they're agile not bulky.

    Phase Blades: +10% p/matk per level and +15%p/mignore. This is a really nice, and very powerful skill, and that's just the pignore. Slayers can get 75% pignore without even trying, I wish I could get half of that on my Berserker! It's not game breakingly over powered, however it is a very potent skill.

    Envenom: +350% matk as additional damage (up to 380%). I don't like "Additional damage" It can't crit, it's not affected by chips, and while it does provide a noticeable increase to the damage of your attacks, it could still be improved.

    Dusk Gaze: I used to like this skill, the 4 second stun was nice, however with things becoming more AoE based it became less useful, and now that it lasts only 2 seconds, it really doesn't seem worth it.

    Twilight Strike: Decent damage, single target attack, 5 second CD. I genuinely can't make heads or tails of the damage formula, and the in game description doesn't help. However, I'm not really sure it is worth breaking out of your basic attacks to use this any more.

    Death's Respite: Reduces the CD of Shadow Rush by 50-100% when a mob is killed. So, it's reasonably useful for moving on to your next target, and it works. So I have no issues with it.

    Phantasm: Wow! This skill got a nice boost! 30% more damage on physical attacks, or patk +30%? Which description do I believe? Either way, that's nice. +20% pacc (up to +27.5%) and +10% crit pow (up to +13% at 160). Lasts 60 seconds, with a 5 min CD. Ok, that's a long CD, but considering the effect, and how strong the effect is, I don't think it's not totally unreasonable.

    Gloom Aura: Does this work? Is it actually useful in what it does? What is its area of effect? How much aggro does it have? The description gives no clues.... For a 30 second CD, I would want it to be able to draw huge amounts of aggro to the Slayer. I doubt it does though.

    After Image: For 5 seconds you gain +20% patk and +10% crit power (+1% of each per extra skill level). That's a nice skill! Pity it doesn't activate currently.... You would need level 20 to get a 1% chance of activating. Did someone put an extra zero in somewhere?

    Debilitating Blows: For 30 seconds it inflicts -1% pacc and macc debuff (+0.5 per level) and stacks twice. So at level 6 (MC maximum) it would inflict -7.5% p/macc with 2 stacks. While it's not a huge amount, and the activation is low (Does this one work?) It is a nice debuff.

    Slayers are an expensive class. However, they are not a bad class. They are not an effective AoE class, however against a single target they are a force to be reckoned with. Even without the crasy HP boost from Shadow Forged Plating, a Slayer can still take hits quite well (Asuran Resilience got a BIG boost too, so any Slayer with decent evasion will still have nice HP) I am envious of the HP a Slayer has, however the amount they can reach is just ridiculous and obviously completely broken.

    For me, a Slayer would be a strong single target DD with some AoE ability. They are a warrior so they should be able to take hits too. But rather than taking them directly, they should use their evasion, or other tactics to enfeeble their opponent, like reducing their accuracy to further enhance their evasion abilities.

    Slayers have some nice skills, but their HP is really broken, and many of their other skills would benefit from being brought up to date.

  • #2
    Using almost any of those attack skills rather than auto attacking means you are doing less damage. The only useful attack skill is hellstorm and that only because it helps aggro so your pet isn't instantly downed as soon as it casts a heal.

    Phantasm is still a very bad choice. Only 20% uptime and you lose out on a lot of other, more useful skills to put a TP into it...

    Most of the skills have zero effect on bosses.

    I'll agree HP needs a tweak.
    Classic quotations: No issue here. Closing this thread.


    • Noire
      Noire commented
      Editing a comment
      I'm pleased to hear I was relatively accurate!

  • #3
    I think every1 agrees on SFP having too HP Impact, but as you mention the Evasion, i'd consider this as viable, if Gala would finally make Evasion useful at higher levels. My Slayer is 181 with 4000+ evasion, yet every Devildome Boss (stage 2 and up) hits me permanently. Either they have an Accuracy of 5K upwards or Evasion just doesnt translate accurately. Either way i still agree on a SFP nerf, but not overworking it completly. Maybe just reduce the base number to 80/150 or make Patk/Matk boost equal at 120/120. Any of these would reduce the max HP significantly, yet would not kill off the class again. I'd personally consider the 120/120 more fair, since there are also several Sword Slayers out there.


    • Semplice
      Semplice commented
      Editing a comment
      evasion works properly at all except yushiva for me, problem is slayers should not deal this amount of damage and still be tanking(secretly having wet dreams about needing to use oblivion and distort on cooldown like with the old slayer and an essence of invulnerability zerk tank on island. cuz zerk could tank where I could not(yet))
      Last edited by Semplice; 29-09-17, 10:18 AM.

    • Hebler
      Hebler commented
      Editing a comment
      indeed it is for those "few" bosses. Take the HP away from the Sylaer entirely and he will just become another fringe class Character again. Since Evasion doesn't work properly on those "few" bosses. I take 40-50k (Crit) from Kainen boss, with no chance to ever evade a hit. How would i be supposed to face him/her again if all the HP gets killed off again?

      Yea, we can now move along and say "find a party", but I play 1-2 hours a day, as i have a busy private life. I guess we can both agree, that finding a Party within such a small amount of time is almost impossible. I'm a solo Player and therefore i believe that all content should still be available to me, since i also pay the CS to make my Chracters better.

    • JustBrowsing98
      JustBrowsing98 commented
      Editing a comment
      It's a fine question of balance. Yushiva hits over 50k, average attack 35k and has a combo that can wipe out quite a lot of hp in one go.

      I think I was running at 550k HP last night fully buffed, lowering this to 400k would be ok. Much less than 400k and you can get in a lot of trouble very fast. It's not like we get 5% HP back every time we hit something.

  • #4
    Ok, having looked through various Slayer skill changes, and even considered testing some, I do have some revisions to make.

    Shadow Rush: Fixed damage? 7k per level -1,200. So, no matter whether you have +0 Ti, or +25 Island, you have around 70k attack on this skill at level 10 (max MC is only 7 so 49k there) That's either crazy strong, or stupid weak. That.... Can't be balanced right?

    Shadow Stab: CD reduced by 1 second per level. Cloak of Shadow still has 100 second CD. You could give Shadow Stab no CD, it would still effectively have a 100 second CD.

    Deadly Dancing: CD reduced, damage reduced. Still long animation, now even weaker.

    Apocalypse: Less CD, more power, still weakens with more hits? Also, still a long animation.

    Crimson Turbulence: Still weak.

    Debilitating Blows: Does not work as the description suggests. It gives -1% p/macc with one stack and -1.5% with two.

    Shadow Forged Plating: Neither the description or the effect of this match the patch notes. Patk to HP ((Skill level * 35) +25) * 0.3 That would be.... 165 at level 4 (The number the description shows) then multiplied by 0.3, which by my maths is 49.5. (Level 8 gives 91.5% patk to HP) Matk to HP ((Skill level *50) +100) * 0.3 (90% at level 4(150% at level 8)


    • #5
      Slayer does not need as much Hp, he needs a reworking of the skills kit so that it depends to a great extent on the skill of the player and not on his exaggerated statistics


      • #6
        Originally posted by Majocue View Post
        Slayer does not need as much Hp, he needs a reworking of the skills kit so that it depends to a great extent on the skill of the player and not on his exaggerated statistics
        Melee Class and "Skill of Player"... thats tough words to take without laughing.

        How is it "Skill of a Player" if 95% of your so called skills don't affect bosses? I would agree with you if you were able to Stun/fear/blind/silence bosses, then for sure you coulkd reduce the HP and actually work with those skills. But as this will never happen, there ist no such thing as "needing Skill" to play a melee class, since their "Skills" are neglectable

        I just tested my Swords +25/+24 vs. daggers +24/+24 und the conclusion is a lame diference of just about 150k damage on main hand nad roughly 90k on offhand (more on swords), whereas the daggers are almost as strong, but can use envenom + have 400k more HP...
        Last edited by Hebler; 04-10-17, 01:47 PM.


        • Majocue
          Majocue commented
          Editing a comment
          therefore, needs a rework in the skills kit, currently only attacks with basic attacks since his skill kit is obsolete, ridiculous and unbalanced. Does not fulfill the fantasy of a murderer.

          I think it can change, if your hope is so weak, would never do it. If the community continues to call for "more of the same," the outcome will never change, it will only disguise itself
          Last edited by Majocue; 04-10-17, 10:54 PM.

      • #7
        I thought “Assassins” in any game are suppose to be quick killers who are squishy in every other game. Why so much HP?


        • #8
          I thought 'squishy mage classes' were supposed to be squishy..not have the same armor as a heavy class and be able to tank entire rooms and wipe them all in seconds...why so much heals and damage?
          Classic quotations: No issue here. Closing this thread.


          • #9
            i thought this is Rappelz where Developers don't care about what a class has to do and just add whatever they feel


            • #10

              Noire, I will explain this I have been a slayer before with +23-+22 gears and I got slaughtered in dd even with the new update and 600k hp without the right gears everyone will die slayer isn't really all the overpowered right now, their pdef lacks and so they will lose hp a lot faster even with high evasion will lose, although I was able to solo s4 circus+revive cakewalk everytime I even tried to do even s2 dd I would just die left n right. It got so bad I actually rage quit but I found my mistake and going round 2 at slayer and hopefully my gears will be a lot better... the skills they did to slayer isn't really anything they need it to survive in all honesty. especially if they don't know what they are completely doing.


              • Bowchicawowow
                Bowchicawowow commented
                Editing a comment
                You are not playing Slayer correctly then lol