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Ultimate Cardinal Fix

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  • Ultimate Cardinal Fix

    This will be a compilation of stuff I've said in previous topics. First off lets remind ourselves what the Bishop class is supposed to be about.

    Powerful spells and average healing ability. Cardinal just expands upon that. The Cardinal by definition is the Deva Mage DD class, which has some healing abilities due to it being Deva and coming from the Cleric class. Yet right now This DD mage damage is way inferior compared to VM, Corr, Magus.

    Problems with the class:

    - Too much MP consumption for what damage or heals skills provide. For example Rapid Healing costs around 2.7k MP to heal a low amount, while Magus heal consumes around 450 MP and heal x3, x4, or x5 times that. Yes Refreshing Triumph got adjusted and now helps sustain the MP drain, but why should Cardinal deviate and spend a TP on that skill as a FIX for somethings other classes don't suffer. Magus and Oracle get -XX% mp consumption without sacrificing any TP's. Lets not mention these 2 classes posses high mp recovery thanks to wisdom in the case of magus, and passives that aid mp recov greatly in the case of Oracle. Lets not mention DD skills are in the same boat. Shinning buster consumes almost 3K MP, Arctic Blast consumes 1K, Restoration consumes 2.5k+. Shinning Cross which deals low damage consumes 2.7k or so.

    - Vortex Magic just doesn't cut it as a power boosting skill. +25% damage is nothing compared to the insane near 100% or over 100% total VM get from Spirit of Fire, Tempest and Heed. Even if Cardinal bought x3 Pieces of PW for that skill, that would still be 75%. Magus gets access to insane amounts of M att, Vm gets access to increased M Att + buffs that add % of damage. Cardinal only relies on Vortex Magic which isn't as efficient, even with the full PW set.

    - Cold Bolt should activate Vortex Magic. It also should have a decreased cool time, around 5-10 seconds i'd say.

    - Rainbow Field needs to hit unlimited amount of targets to make it fair. Oracle Mass repentance hits an unlimited amount of targets and basically deals more damage. Rainbow Field has the advantage of being placed in the ground, but that might as well be a double edged sword because targets could just move out of the zone and avoid the damage. In comparison. Doesn't make sense how the Deva mage DD main AoE skill is way less efficient, than the Deva Healer.

    - Shinning Cross needs higher lvls in Cardinal to be able to be spammed, same as Oracle. How come Oracle has 2 constant AoEs, and Cardinal just has 1 inferior one?

    - Brisk Reprisal needs to activate while casting spells (heals or DD) (or at least dd) , not with a low chance when getting hit for such a low duration. It should work like Oracle's Angel's Deception. which adds Int and M att % when attacking and stacks 3 times. Id adjust Brisk Reprisal to increase Int % based and the Mov speed amount can stay the same, make buff last 2 minutes at least, and activate with a 5% chance or so when attacking or healing. I understand the concept was for the Cardinal to get boosted momentarily while in danger to survive, but as the game power demand has evolved, this skill simply became outdated and unfair.

    - Binding Ward should also activate while attacking. The Hold at high lvls lasts around 5-6 seconds. But only activates with a low low chance when getting hit. The concept was to escape easily a threat, but again this skill simply became outdated. basically Brisk reprisal and Binding Ward are not used if you play Cardinal in a way that you avoid getting hit to survive. I would make the hold activate when attacking with a greater chance but reduced duration, maybe 3-5 seconds tops. Or allow hold to last longer as lvl increases, and make the activation rate a bit lesser than the previous example. Deadeye with Silarion belt set simply gets permanent hold on a target, why can't a Mage DD have something similar, that won't even be as constant or permanent. Cardinal has a decent Crowd Control kit (not as reliable at times tho) and involves holding targets in place, like Frozen Snare and SnowSlide and Rock Pin, this change would be fitting for the class.

    - Divine Nova base CD is 10 minutes, at increased lvls it goes down to around 5 minutes or 6. This skill could use a lower cool down, maybe 1 minute and lvl decreases cool down by a little amount, or card does. Damage can stay as is. VM has similar AoE stun skills that can be casted way too often compared to Divine Nova.

    - Inner Light is simply outdated and way inferior compared to other classes. Take for example Void Mage Apostle of Darkness which increases M ignore greatly and the current Slayer Phase Blades. 5% M att and 10% M ignore simply doesn't cut it. Perhaps make it around 20% and 40% at lvl 2?

    Spear skills:

    - Heavens Spear simply does way inferior damage compared to Mighty Energy Beat, which is spam able, Heavenly Spear has a 20 secs cd or so. I would decrease cool down and increase damage to at least be greater than a Mighty Energy Beat. Cool down could be 10 seconds or 5.

    - Earth Spear has 45 seconds CD and inferior damage for just a stun. Id keep damage as it is but decrease cool down greatly. Cardinal has no 100% reliable Crowd control skills. Frozen snare just holds target but player can still attack. Rock pin and Snowslide seal but it can simply be broken and wasted if a undesired person or mob touches the target or a Dot hits it. Basically if you are attacking someone with any of your DoTs, including Arctic Blast, you cant use your 2 main CCs. Divine Nova as it stands is nowhere near useful as CC, due to long CD. Earth spear is the only stun which could be reliable if the cd was reduced. This would also aid the Oracle class that basically lacks CC's

    - Frost Spear could have a reduced cool down as well, considering is one of the skills that activate vortex magic and its attack speed debuff isn't that great. In fact, notice how if Cardinal wanted, he coudln't AoE targets with the benefit of Vortex Magic? Why can other classes simply output their max damage, and cardinal has to rely in 1 passive that is single target?. Frost Spear could be made into an AoE, this would allow cardinal to AoE, using Vortex Magic. Cool down would need to be very low tho.Was going to suggest Arctic Blast became an AoE similar to Poison Shot from Deadeye, but right now with its power boost, would be overkill.

    - Celestial Protection simply has a very long cool down and short duration. Feel like a wasted TP. Lets not mention that even if players wasted to spend a TP in it, it would mean they'd sacrifice their only mp recovery method which is Refreshing Triumph. Duration should be a bit longer and cool down could be 30 seconds to 1 minute. This would make a skilled Cardinal a essential kit for parties if he manages to time the Bosses devastating aoe attacks and protect the whole pt in a snap. It's already hard enough to learn all the bosses skills and when they cast them; would be nice to have that TP skill available to cast more often when needed, considering it will most likely be cast off time and protect nothing or get wasted anyways.

    - All the heals need a boost... big one. MP consumption should be decreased and the healing power should be greatly increased. As they stand now, pets heal better than a Deva class who has heals... Magus heals make cardinal heals look miserable. This would also fix one of the problems Oracle has, which are low low heals compared to Magus. Not saying Magus heals are too strong, even as they stand now they are sometimes not enough to save people who are tanking a boss; it's just Deva heals got completely forgotten and left behind.

    - Acid Swamp DoT deals such a low amount of damage that its barely noticeable it has one. The DoT should be increased power wise, and duration wise. Specially duration at least. Or Cd could simply be reduced some. Lets be honest, as it stands, maybe 3% of Cardinals use this skill.Maybe less, yeah, less. If Cold Bolt gets decreased CD, and considering Artctic blast Mov speed decrease, Acid Swamp is just not as useful. Maybe add additional effects like decreased attack speed and cast speed (could be big if it lasts a short amount)? decreased defenses by a % ( not too big) ?

    - Flash could have increased accuracy debuff. Maybe make it decrease P. and M. accuracy by a % instead?

    - Magical Training Mastery needs to be boosted in a similar way to Deadeye crossbow passives or Slayers weapon passives. It should increse M. Att by a %.

    - Cleric Weapon Mastery should add cast speed %. No Deva mage class uses melee weapons. This skill is outdated since 7 epics ago or so. The skill got increased lvls in 9.5. Now it would be nice if it was useful with this cast speed % boost.

    And now the Big one...EARTHQUAKE

    This skill is simply the most useless skill in Rappelz.

    it consumes around 2k MP...

    it's cool down is 20 minutes... (card and skill lvl does nothing to reduce it)

    Its duration is 10 seconds only...

    Its damage is basically non existent...

    debuff is just -30% mov speed..

    Before I talk about how the skill should be, lets watch this official Rappelz trailer which at the at the 15 seconds mark, shows a Deva character casting a Earthquake skill, which surprisingly shows perfectly how the skill should work and how I imagined it's fix it all this time.

    This skill simply needs a complete rework, not just a graphics adjustment which doesn't even match the skill (ill get to that soon). I was thinking this skill could be the side partner of Rainbow Field as a spamable AoE. It should have a 5 second CD as well, the debuff can stay as it is or maybe increased to 75% for a 5 seconds duration, either as a effect on the ground or as a Debuff on each target that was hit. It would hit all targets in a frontal arc which will be placed in floor same as Rainbow Field, or simply be targeted. Something like this:

    This change would make perfect sense considering the Damage dealing and crowd controlling nature of the Cardinal. This version of Earthquake simply depicts what a Cardinal is; Protects the party by damaging and crowd controlling enemies.

    And now for the visual changes

    This is an Asura Mage casting a Fire skill ( Fire Field), looks great.

    This is a Deva Mage casting a Earth skill ( Earthquake)....... notice how they are exactly the same..... ? That's not good at all and makes no sense. ( please ignore the red markings i did in paint on this picture. They mention how some effects should stay but if the skill is to be reworked as explained above this wouldn't apply)( If skill isn't reworked as stated above, then the red markings should be taken into consideration).

    This is the old color scheme for earth skills, a mix of these or 1 of these, should be used instead of the ones in the picture above.

    This is the Naga skill Rising Stone, an Earth skill.... It actually looks like the Cardinal Earthquake should look. Not the circular effect around it but the stones that rise from the ground and move, provoking dust around themselves.

    Earthquake Conclusion:

    CD: 5 seconds
    MP consumption: 500-600
    Mov speed effect: 75%
    Effect duration: 5 seconds
    Target method: placed on ground
    Range: same as Rainbow Field
    Direction: frontal arc, damage and effect can instantly affect the targets in the arc area, or gradually, yet quickly affects those near to Cardinal first and finish with the farthest ones. Same as in the video.
    Coverage: from a 40 degrees to 180 degrees angle.
    Visual effects: Stones that rise and then descend and generate dust. From closest to farthest. Similar but larger red glowing( or maybe one of the green colors above?) earth cracked effect ( like in the current Earthquake skill) can be added. The dust effect can either be like the Rising Stone skill or a smoke effect similar to that made by Takin boss when he stomps the ground, or the Ice Breath White Dragon skill which provokes a frontal arc smoke like effect (just don't make it blue).

    I suggested in the past passives or active toggle skill to aid the defenses of Cardinal but i''ll scrap that considering the game is moving towards party oriented gameplay again and we don't want Cardinals to solo tank things, their passives and CC skills should be enough for survival if needed. (If the skills really do get adjusted).

    Divine Shield could be adjusted, but i'll mention it in the Oracle topic later on.

    Please take these things into consideration, thanks. (specially Earthquake one)
    Last edited by Kenshin; 04-12-17, 04:27 PM.

  • #2
    Shinning buster is beyond broken it costs 9x as much as mighty energy beat, only hits 1 target, has a much longer cast animation, locks you in place, and does about half as much damage as mighty energy beat. Factor in other skills that could be cast in the same time and it's even worse. I really do not know how to fix this one unless in becomes and aoe and does much more damage.

    Magical Acquisition costs 1700 MP for a less than half a % increase in m attack. This really needs to be a fixed ‰ based on skill level.

    Celestial Protection (has it honestly ever worked? I have never had it do anything on my cardinal) should be a toggle much like the mass blessings. Make it give a physical and magical damage reduction based on skill level that stacks with shinning armor.

    Refreshing Triumph is not worth the TP atm. If it is meant to restore MP on a kill the set it to a % of Max MP per kill and adjust the level range a bit because bosses and mob are now much higher than the player anymore.

    Arctic Blast really needs to be an aoe skill with a 4 to 6 target maximum to be comparable with chain lightning or vengeful spirit if it's going to keep its high MP cost. Give it a 3 second CD and adjust the CD from the card and passive as needed.

    Divine Nova needs a 1 minute CD and a bit more damage to be useful.

    Snowslide is very outdated, yes you can seal things forever, but it really is useless in parties because other players aoes break it. It would be much better as an aoe attack speed, cast speed, and move speed debuff with some decent initial damage much like a combination of fire and lightning fields minus the dots.

    Endless Winter should be changed to a chance to cast snowslide on hitting a mob much like how the corruptor has undieing terror and putrefy.

    Brisk reprisal is pointless when you only have a 2% chance for it to go off and can only take 4 to 6 hits. Make a % based increase to either int or m attack on casting a skill with a fixed amount of move speed added on. Give it a minute or 2 buff duration.

    Binding Ward honestly is just as useless as Brisk Reprisal. It should be a fixed chance on hitting a mob. Around 5 to 8 %.

    Minor shinning armor and weapon both are useless skills once you get to r6. Makes them self target buffs only that are half to one third as effective as the aoe versions that stack with them.

    The blessing buffs are all out dated. I would say make them all a % based on skill lvl maybe around a half to 1% per lvl. Otherwise I would add about 10 to 15 lvls onto what they are now.
    Last edited by Ravgor; 14-09-17, 08:28 PM.


    • #3
      Darn Kenshin, beat me to it!

      I like a lot of what he said already, so I'm gonna add some of my own thoughts.

      Reduce the MP cost of Rapid Healing, Restoration, Seraphic Remedy, Magical Requistion, by 40-50%. It is insane how much these skills costs MP-wise, when Magus has two skills that cost less, and heal a crap ton more.

      Vortex Magic- Instead of having the spell activate when using certain spells, why not have it as a status effect that works like Wind Seed. For example, if I use a spell on a target, or multiple targets, the target would be debuffed with Vortex Magic, and the target would receive +25% more damage (higher % with higher levels just as the PW gears are now). As it stands now, only 3 spells can cause this effect. This would eliminate the need for having Frost Spear become an AoE. However if this was implemented, I would see the need to limit Rainbow Field's number of targets. This would also have to affect the other AoE's cool downs as well so there would be less complaints.

      Rainbow Field- As I said previously, single target damage is great now, more than one target is reduced by -35%. Make the targets unlimited, or reduce the reduction down to -20%.

      Training Mastery- Increase by a %. I saw this was in the skill tree, and the extra 400-500 it will give just doesn't amount to anything

      Inner Light- Ditch M.Pierce and give M.Ignore by 15%. Increase M.Atk by 30%.

      Earthquake- I honestly think it should be the equivalent to DM's Lightning Field. I think it would be cool if was like Root of Mother Nature too, just an AoE hold that does DoT.

      Brisk Reprisal- I think chance on attack by 5% is too little. It needs to be more like 15-20%. Increase Intelligence AND Wisdom by a %, keeping the movement speed portion the same.

      Binding Ward- I like was said about this, any spell being cast has the chance to hold a target by 5-10%.


      • #4
        Nice work Kenshin

        I'll just post my own thoughts into one thread instead of making a separate one

        Ideas: Cardinal Changes

        For quick reference to the Cardinal Skill-Tree, heres a link below on an interactive skill tree, all credits goes to CantSeeMe

        My view of the Cardinal is a support class, that focuses on single target damage,debuffs and protection to help its party memebers.

        Currently on the live servers this class does not have enough power to be preferred played as your main class, most players just have them as buff slaves because of that. Changes should be made to help Cardinal fulfill its niche more potently and be worth investing high end level gears on it.

        Here is a list of suggestion that can help boost Cardinal - Not interested in exact numbers, just a rough idea of what the skill should be change to, the Gala team can debate on that.

        - Celestial Protection: - Cooldown reduced from 600s --> 60s
        - Guardian force cooldown reduction from 50s --> 5s

        Context: Give it the Brillant harmony cooldown treatment that was made in Epic 8.3, the idea behind here is to give Cardinal their own version of a TP protection spell, currently master classes are limited to 7 TPs so a standard build for a Cardinal is always 2/3/2, the reason for this is because Vortex Magic has heavy reliance on Arctic Blast since its the only spell, thats spam-able enough to activate Vortex Magic's effect, hence it is not worth giving up a TP else where for Celestial Protection, since the cooldown time is too long. If a Cardinal wants to diverse its TPs layout they should be able to do so viably, and not be pigeon holed into always wanting Arctic blast + Vortex magic just because its the only viable option.

        - Vortex Magic: Adds damage amplification on physical damage as well and work on team members.

        Context: The issue with this passive is that it looks really good on paper and currently is Cardinal's only PW set to go for but its limited to single target application since all the spells that can apply it is single target, either we make an AoE spell to apply it OR make it work for allies, this would make teaming up with a Cardinal be more viable, seeing that they are promoting teamplay again.

        - Frigid Breeze: Increase the cooldown reduction further than that on Epic 9.5

        Context: Epic 9.5 increased it from 0.4 --> 0.5, the number are just too small to justify giving up PW Vortex magic set for Frigid Breeze, in order for it to be worth it the cooldown reduction needs to be alot higher so that when a Cardinal achieves a full Frigid Breeze set + very high level of Arctic Blast skill card, they be rewarded with a 0.1cd skill.

        - Endless Winter: - Reduces the cooldown of all Water spells instead of just Snowslide

        Context: When master class got introduced back in Epic 7.4, then this passive used to make sense, but with the addtional of final Awakenings and extra lvl of skills, a player can already decrease cooldown of Snowslide to 0s cooldown, therefore making this passive redundant, but instead lets make it reduce the cooldown of water spells when ever a unit is killed, So this way the Cardinal has some way of reseting arctic blast faster for more damage/debuffs output in a party.

        - Binding ward: - Significantly increase the chance rate for this to activate
        Context: 2% chance is completely laughable

        - Brisk Reprisal: - Significantly increase the chance rate for this to activate
        - Instead of 'When Struck' change it to 'Your damaging spells' activate stacks of Brisk Reprisal just like Corruptor's Stroke of Genius
        - Increase number of stacks, Intelligence, and movement speed it provides

        Context: Again just like Binding ward 3% chance rate is extremely low that it never activates to be useful, the idea behind here is to make 'Brisk Reprisal' into Cardinal's own version of 'Stroke of Genius' where it plays up Cardinal as the 'Kite mage' since they have arctic blast, holds and slows, also alot of Cardinal players are always concerned about the high cost of thier mana spells so extra intelligence should help alleviate that.

        - Magical Requisition: - Skill card: -3% cast time and cooldown per level
        - Change it to scale off from a percentage rather then flat rate

        Context: This skills seems to be serverly outdated, flat rate amount reduction/increases are far too small in today's state of the game to be appreciated. But even if it was changed to percent reduce M.Atk/increase M.Atk it will not be a useful debuff since monsters/bosses don't use M.Atk at all and it will only serve as a self-boost, so with that in mind we could change it to p.def/m.def debuff/self-boost therefore it can be done to help your party members deal more damage.

        - Shining Weapon - Change it to percent damage amplification

        Context: +160/320 flat damage to basic attacks and skills is not a valid increase in damage, especially in this state of the game, same goes with Dark Might. It can be as low as 3%, but this got to change.

        - Frost Spear, Frozen Snare, Earth Spear, Divine Nova, Earthquake: - Reduce cooldown of skill per level, and make their Skill Cards: -3% cast time and cooldown time per level

        Context: Since Cardinal is a support class it should be able to make use of its debuff skills more readily, alot of Cardinal skill cards are quite bland in the fact that it doesn't offer utility bonuses, just flat damage increase.

        - Seraphic Remedy: ?

        Context: It just seems like a copy and paste version of Magus healing gust but with worse numbers, ratios and cd I honestly can't think of any thing that would make this skill more unique on its own instead of just increasing numbers to the point where its better than healing gust. I feel like Healing gust is that strong since Magus has to give up 1 TP to get it, where as Cardinal doesn't.
        Last edited by Siriner; 23-09-17, 02:10 AM.


        • #5
          When looking at classes for this game it was obvious that they meant for people to have different methods of playing them or using schools of magic. For instance with VM you have the choice of being a fire mage or lightning tho now it just seems you macro both spams and just hit the same key over and over.

          When it comes to Cardinal they have Holy, Earth and Water/Frost spells yet it seems the only spam is Holy, this should change!

          Frost tree suggestions;

          Arctic Blast should have a much lower CD, it should be spamable. There's no reason why this spell shouldn't be as spamable as Might Energy Beat. It's MP cost offsets it's ability to overtake MEB in long battles but would be nice for people who want to mostly use the Frost school of spells and help the team DD and Debuff the targets.

          Cold Bolt should have a much lower Cool Down, it's too long and should activate Vortex Magic. It should be a go to spell regardless if you're mostly using Holy or Frost spells.

          Frost Spear should be instant cast. It's a decent debuff but it's casting time is much to long.

          Frozen Snare should have a much lower cool down about 5 seconds and it's DoT damage greatly increased. Remove the hold for balance but have the DoT hit as hard as Radiant Flare.

          Endless Winter should reduce the cost of Frost Spells when damaging a target with Frost spells.

          Brisk Reprisal/Binding Ward should activate when attacking a target.

          These changes would give Cardinal a viable pure Frost build which would be fun.

          Holy Tree changes;

          Rainbow Field should hit unlimited targets and be less clunky to use. A simple change to casting it where you mouse over instead of having to click, aim and press again would save time and make it less frustrating.

          Refreshing Triumph should have it's spell effect changed to a Halo looking effect. It makes no sense why this skill shares the same spell graphic as Restoration. It needs it's own effect to be less confusing. It also needs to give MP based on the percentage of your total MP pool over just a fixed amount.

          Heaven's Spear, lower cooldown and have it be an AoE version of Flash.

          Inner Light change the pierce to ignore.

          Shining Buster lower the cool down to 20 or so seconds, lower the casting time greatly and increase damage.

          Divine Nova lower the cooldown to 30-40 seconds, reduce stun to .5 seconds and increase it's damage.

          Angel's Restoration change this to a group wide spell, lower the CD to 10 seconds. No reason this spell shouldn't be useful.

          Minor Shining Weapon/Armor, lower the percentage of Armor and increase the effect of Weapon and have it be a self buff that stacks with normal buffs.

          Buff/Healing tree;

          Magical Requesition decrease cool down, increase time up and make it based on percentage.

          Rapid Healing reduce the MP cost.

          Mass Restoration increase the HoT by a large margin, since Oracle has group healing and group HoT, the Cardinal should have the best group HoT and debuffs but lack group healing power of the Oracle. Also change the spell graphic to something else, since the spell is kept up 100% of the time by most people, the spell graphic for Mass Restoration and Restoration is obnoxious. It should have a much smaller and duller visable effect, just to show you it's on you. Maybe even change the spell look to that of the HoT/Group HoT of the Blue pixie spells.

          Celestial Protection reduce this to 60 seconds or so.

          Earth spells;

          New Spell, "Earth Energy" (Can change it to whatever.) Same casting time/CD as Mighty Energy Beat, Damage of normal Energy Beat but has a chance to poison the target, stacks up to 5 times. Can have the same spell effects and graphics as Energy Beat but dark green and the poison application can look like when the poison weapon applies to a target (the green swirl) can have the same damage as the poison weapon ability.

          Why this spell is a good idea, Rappelz has nice aesthetics and decent character tree designs, would be nice for Cardinal to have spells that reflect all of it's schools of magic and another spam never hurts! Would be fun to see what builds to play, Earth, Holy or Frost!

          Earthquake this spell needs to be 30 seconds max, new spell graphic and possibly a debuff to enemies.

          Earth Spear, lower cool down and make instant cast.

          Acid Swamp, Greatly increase DoT damage and lower the cool down and have it increase damage done to target by Earth spells.

          Acid Spray, Increase DoT damage and give it a p.def/m.def % decrease debuff.

          Rock Pin, Lower cool down, increase damage and instead of stopping one target applies a snare/immobilize to the target and snares nearby enemies.

          Each tree and each school of magic should have it's own feel to it and uses to fit whatever play style the player wants.


          • #6
            I haven't been mentioning the various weapon/armour passives in other topics, however I agree that they need reworking and giving the same treatment as the crossbow weapon passives!

            (Class) Weapons Mastery/Magical training Mastery should give a % increase to patk or matk, like the the xbow passive that increases patk by a % when using a xbow.

            Armour Mastery, should increase pdef or icky mdef by a % also.

            But now, back to Cardinals.

            Flash: Is a weak spell with an unnoticeable pacc debuff for the target for 15 seconds and a 30 sec CD. Boost the power, make it a % pacc debuff, make the CD and effect duration the same, and you have a great friend for the slayer.

            Heaven's Spear: Weak spell, slightly longer range than most. But now completely useless because you have MEB.

            Shining Cross: Huge MP consumption, small AoE that doesn't do much damage on a single target, and even less on multiple targets!

            Shining Buster: Weak, slow, uses a lot of MP for very little damage. On the plus side, it has no CD....! Still useless.

            Earth Spear: Low damage, 4 sec stun, 45 sec CD. Nice for CC, but that's a lost art, so not worth using.

            Frost Spear: Low damage, nice attack speed debuff, but short duration and quite long CD. Activates Vortex Magic, and that's pretty much the best thing about it...

            Acid Swamp: 5 sec, 30% movespeed debuff with a fixed dot that ticks every second. If this was an AoE with matk based dot, a 10 sec duration and 30 sec CD, it could be a pretty nice skill, as it is, completely useless.

            Frozen Snare: Activates Vortex Magic, but..... That's the only good point. Fixed damage DoT that ticks every second, with a hold effect. I think at high levels the CD isn't much longer than duration. Cardinals seem to be a LOT about speed debuffs, move speed in particular, but freezing can limit other actions too. Like Acid Swamp an AoE version could make Cardinals very useful. They would LOVE an AoE that activated Vortex Magic.

            Acid Spray: Used to be useful, now not worth it. Pdef debuff and a fixed DoT every 3 seconds. This can become permanent. Weakness Skin got a nice boost recently, Making Acid Spary a % pdef debuff with a matk based DoT, that would make it quite useful, particularly in Devildom.

            Clear Poison: This is MY absolute 100% favourite Cardinal skill! Its usefulness is unrivalled! Maybe.... 70% success, so not even guaranteed to work...... Chance of nullifying an effect that no one need removing. Seriously, I do not know what could be done to this skill to keep it true to itself but actually do.... SOMETHING! Personally, I would like if it would be an MP heal of some sort, like Lucid Dream. Cardinals do use quite a bit of MP.

            Divine Shield: More of an Oracle skill, but it's not so broken that it does nothing, it just doesn't have much use for most people.

            Rock Pin: A CC skill! So, useless.... Well, you can seal a boss and run but that's it. Low damage, long CD. Not really useful.

            Cold Bolt: Really should activate Vortex Magic. Short-ish CD, 6 sec fixed damage DoT and movespeed debuff. Matk based DoTs are nice, I like those. Cardinal would LOVE an AoE that activated Vortex Magic. They also seem to have a lot of speed debuffs! That sounds familiar...

            Divine Nova: Very pretty skill! When you use it enemies find you totally stunning for a few seconds! The damage is ok too! The CD is terrible though. VM and Corr have Splash Thunder which... For most things is very similar to this skill, except the CD....

            Earthquake: This skill!!!! It's a lot like DM fields isn't it? But... The CD, 20 mins? Not 20 seconds? and it has NO damage?? Maybe it's not so similar after all is the Cardinal -30% movespeed debuff that much better than Lightning Field's 23%? Cardinals.... They have a lot of movespeed debuffs in particular, don't they? They seem to be a lot about debuffing!

            Snow Slide: Officially the slowest and most annoying way to kill someone in PvP. For a skill which is mostly useless, this one may actually come in very handy for... Are there any Cardinals left to play in Devildom? An AoE seal with no CD would be useful there at times, however that in itself is broken. This is another skill which has the potential to become an AoE debuff with some damage.

            Inner Light: I have no idea how to tell if ignoring the mdef of a target affects your damage at all.... The matk increase is nice though, I do like this part.

            Refreshing Triumph: Cardinals do use a lot of MP, however even after the changes to this skill it simply isn't worth wasting a TP on. This is another skill that I struggle to think of how it could be changed to be useful, but to remain faithful to its name.

            Rainbow Field: I haven't actually tested this since it was changed, however I don't see why it needs to have a target limit on it.

            Vortex Magic: Arguably the Cardinal's best skill, 30% more damage on enemies with one of 3 debuffs on them. Mercenaries deal 66% or more damage to enemies under 99% HP (Btw, I miss the HP% display) VMs get +45% (or more) increase to fire and thunder spells, then an additional 50% (or more) increase to ALL spells. Cardinal, 30% (up to 75% though) increase in damage on enemies with one of three single target debuffs on them. Ok on bosses, but not so good anywhere else.

            Celestial Protection: Can you please fix the highlighting on the tooltip and the chat messages when you use this skill please? Protects the party from damage for 5 seconds with a 10 min CD, doesn't affect DoTs. Generally it is the DoTs which cause the most party wide damage, but even then, given the duration and the CD, would it be worth using a TP on?

            Arctic Blast: This never deserved the nerf it was given, however due to how playing has changed It's not as great as it used to be, the damage is ok, but it is a single target in a very AoE based game now.

            Binding Ward: 2% a WHOLE one in fifty chance of inflicting Hold on the attacker for 5 seconds! I do not have words to describe this skill!

            Endless Winter: Well, with enough levels Snow Slide is endless anyway, so... Yeah. Personally, I would change the effect of Snow Slide to either and attack speed or movespeed, or you could make it a patk debuff since freezing has all sort of depreciative abilities. Make it a "field" type skill, give it some damage and a CD so that killing stuff would actually make a difference to how often you could use it. But that's just me.

            Brisk Reprisal: You have a small chance when struck to increase your Int and movespeed for a duration stacks 3 times. But, you really don't want to be getting hit! Overall, I agree with what other people have said, to make it work on attack like Stroke of Genius, and increase the stats it gives, because 60 int is not much.

            Magical Requisition: For the amount of Matk this gives, it's not worth it. I like percentages, they're always useful.

            The Buffs.

            While the increase to the primary stats isn't terrible, the increase to the derived stats isn't particularly useful. When you have lets be modest and say 15k shall we? Lets say you have 15k of a stat an extra 300 is... By my maths a 2% increase. I do like percentages though, I mean, they tend to give the classes that find particular stats useful without giving other classes way more than they need. Sure, I would like more pdef on mages, but they aren't built to tank unlike..... Tanks?

            Shining Weapon: A fixed damage increase to basic and skill attacks. I don't know why I bother to buff this, because it doesn't make any difference. Back to percentages, Shining Weapon and Dark might don't even give a percent increase. There are eggs that do! They don't give a huge increase, but they use those lovely percents and do make SOME difference.

            The Heals.

            Heals are one thing in Rappelz which simply haven't managed to keep up with the times, the modifiers on them are too low and they rely too much on fixed amounts. I remember doing 20k heals last time I played Cardi, which isn't terrible. However, even if the Cardinal focussed purely on healing, I doubt it would be enough on the Island or in Devildom. Otherwise you might actually see them doing those things.

            Overall, Cardinals really do have a LOT of move speed debuffs in particular, they can rival Corruptors for the number of debuffs they have. They're just not useful. They could be useful however. While a lot affect the same stat, if they all reduced it by a small amount and stacked, then they could really build up on your enemies. Maintaining lots of small debuffs while doing damage would give Cardinals quite a unique play style too.

            They have a lot of skills which don't do much. Players would like them to do something, please, give Cardinals some love too?


            • #7
              Well, after having played my Cardinal tonight, I can say that they do pretty reasonable damage. Arctic Blast hits hard, MEB isn't too bad either. Rainbows do nice damage, however the delay between the two hits is quite long, the 4m range makes hitting a large number of mobs a challenge. Also, I don't like the limitation on the number of mobs it can hit.


              • Siriner
                Siriner commented
                Editing a comment
                Yer, given that the state of the game is AOE now, Rainbow field should have its limitations of mobs removed, but Idk if Cardinal having bad AoE is intended or not, since we do not know what Gala wants Cardinal to be or what kind of feedback they are looking for.

                Another idea that could help is perhaps Vortex magic gets applied against sealed targets, so you can AoE snowslide mobs therefore rainbow field can proc off the damage bonus.
                Last edited by Siriner; 22-09-17, 08:46 AM.

              • Kenshin
                Kenshin commented
                Editing a comment
                Siriner, I beleive the game is moving towards a AoE oriented gameplay or at least to make all the classes able to have some sort of reliable AoE. As a Mage DD cardinal is meant to have AoEs. Most probable reason why Rainbow Field was Limited to 7 target was lore wise. Rainsbows have 7 colors..... Now with 9 hits that is gone. Might as well remove all the limitations to make the skill catch up with current game state.

                I was going to suggest Vortex Activated with Seal butt he problem I saw in it is the skill would then activate by other seals casted by other classes or items and mainly that when the seal breaks off the effect is gone so you'd have to re cast a seal again, hit target seal again and so on, which is too time consuming and not ideal. Making Cold Bolt or Frost Spear a sorta spamabale aoe like Poison Shot in DE would be better.

            • #8
              Any idea when/if any changes will take place?


              • Siriner
                Siriner commented
                Editing a comment
                Not sure, since there is no information on that, but I can tell you that they did started working on Berserker, so maybe 1 class every 2 weeks?

            • #9
              I agree a lot with most of the comments made. I have Played a long time as my main a cardi and I hate we were nerfd. before we could help ourselves do damage and now i count on some1 else to do things i used to be able to do alone. now i do understand that we are playing a MMO and parties are a big part of that but I personally would like to be able to do dailys alone then go party and also be more helpful than my buffs in these parties. i agree mp shortage on most skills is a problem, trying to keep sum1 elsee mana scrolled and healing does not work in our benefit. the last thing i'd like to comment on is for all classes actually, i'd like to see a hot key made to switch between your pets in formation. not only is this helpful for monarch but it is also useful for healing/saving urself, some1 else or your pet.


              • #10
                I just remembered that the Death Tyrants on VI can do AoE Frozen Snare and Cold Bolt AoE. I think that making this change would be easy. Instead of Cold Bolt AoE, let Frost Spear be the AoE as Kenshin suggested.


                • #11
                  I agree with rainbow getting improved into hitting more targets and damage wise but Arctic Blast should either get a damage boost or leave as it is. It doesn’t need to be AOE. It’s already very useful enough. It’s literally the best CC for bosses. All other AOEs that Master Classes get don’t have any CC effect. What comes close to AB is restrain. Which is also single target. I actually like the CDs on VoidMage, Corruptor, Oracle’s AOEs. The most dumbest AoEs CDs is wildstream. Literally just seeing Mercs spamming 1 all Party not caring about their Tank role.


                  • MrShow
                    MrShow commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Ok ill make sure to use Lighting Chain or Piercing Skulls to slow down bosses and solo them! Thank you for the tip!
                    Earth and Fire = What CC?
                    Mass Repetance = CC?
                    Piercing Skull = Where?? tell me
                    Chain Lighting = ???
                    WarKahuna = its just in the list since You said "Magical"
                    But we can bring in the other classes too?? right?
                    Templar (Light of salvation) NO CC there, just reduces P.def.
                    Mercenary (Doesn't really get an MC AOE skill) but, wild stream... No CC here
                    Master Breeder (No)
                    Beast Master (Again, No MC AOE) butt Wave Cut. NO CC
                    Marksman (Nerfed AOE but it wasn't an MC skill to begin with) Steel Cage, NO CC
                    Berserker - It gets an AOE at MC with CC, but guess what? It's weak compare to Arctic Blast. It's damage is very very low and Its AOE range is small. Oh, and caps at -50% mov speed max.
                    DeadEye - It never had CCs to begin with, only ones with chances.
                    Slayer - Twilight Strike I think? not even sure if that's the name, but small AOE range, no CC.

                    So please tell me which MC Class got an AOE skill with CC???? (Incase you don't know what CC is.. Crowd Control. Stun, Mov. debuff, blind, etc.)
                    I don't want to hear VM or Corrupter either.
                    DM was the original AOE class, so this 2 class share that tree.
                    Last edited by MrShow; 15-03-18, 02:06 AM. Reason: Forgot to reply to the part where It says "Many magical damage Aoe Skills have debuffs" when It failed to read what I said.

                  • Kenshin
                    Kenshin commented
                    Editing a comment
                    You must be very new to the game, you only mention 1 skill per class. VM has 2 aoe stuns, lighting field reduces mov speed and att speed. Lets not forget meteor shower. Corruptor has tons of aoes with cc. It seems it is you who doesn't know what CC means, if you did you would have listed them here. And no VM and Corr don't share ALL their aoe CCs. Deadeye has hail of the underworld. Magus has root of mother nature, slayer has smokebomb and crimson tubulence, templar has judgement of heaven, OL has armageddon. It's not about MC exclusive aoe cc skills, its about the aoe cc skills classes have as a whole. Its not like as soon as you turn MC you are unable to use your old skills. Go and learn about the game.

                  • MrShow
                    MrShow commented
                    Editing a comment
                    ea and you must be very new to reading or very ignorant. Arctic Blast DOES damage. It's powerful. With a clean staff, an Arctic Blast can deal about 1million damage. Cardinal is one of the few classes that doesn't have to Face Tank bosses.
                    Also i clearly mention not to say DMs since they are the original AOE classes of the game. Especially the one who takes the path to Void Mage. Do you know how to balance classes so they aren't busted? Do you know what happened to Restrain? It got nerfed! Why? It wasn't AOE but it was a CCing skill that dealt tons of damage. Players took 60k damage or more and were slowed by I believe 90%.
                    Imagine a Cardinal with AOE arctic blast. Goes around with PK ON, press 1 to cast Arctic Blast. K, everyone is down -60k HP is slowed and can't really chase the Cardinal unless Ofc, they are ranged. This would be an absolute nightmare to classes who aren't range. Especially newbies. You can make Arctic Blast AOE, but the slow would either need to be removed or nerfed by a lot. Or it can get a boost in damage and kept with the same affects. Then Rainbow can be boosted to hit more targets, and slightly less CD, and maybe more damage since it's an AOE without ANY CC.
                    Btw Hail of the underworld, has long CD, bad damage, an animation, and no CC... thank you for bringing it up.
                    Root of mother nature... bad damage, but that's why it's an AOE CC.
                    Armageddon, small hitbox, Damage isn't comparable to other AOEs.
                    Smoke Bomb, I didn't know Slayers went that path, also didn't know it dealt damage. I would need to look that one up.
                    Since u wanted to bring in the DMs in.
                    Fear Trap, Lighting Trap, Steadfast Shadowflame don't really deal damage. Thank you for the ignorance.
                    The corpse Traps, only one can cause petrification, that's why you can't really attack until it wores off, same with Magus AOE petry.
                    Wide Windy Shackles No damage.
                    Fog of Horror, no damage.
                    Thunder Slayer, Bad damage, Small Range. NO CC
                    Fire Storm, low damage no CC
                    Meteor Shower, bad damage, has CC, Was NERFED, because the CC was strong.
                    Heaven's Breaker, bad damage, has CC
                    Lighting Field, Damage is ok now because before it was terrible, but only reduces ATK spd, NOT mov spd. Plus it has a radius. Move out of it to avoid it.
                    Fire Field, Boosted, before bad. Doesn't CC.
                    Dark Spiral, Why didn't this get boosted in Master Class you may ask?? It was a very power AOE that belong to the class with the most AOEs. Do you know why Warlock and Chaos Mage are different? Chaos Mage deals power AOE damage, but it lacks defense which includes CC. It has 2 aoe CC with decent damage and that's Splash Thunder and Heaven's Breaker and 1 CC AOE whcih deals no damage and was NERFed due to it being broken. Meteor Shower. Warlock on the other hand HAS multiple AOE CCs, but did you know back in the days, warlock was played using a dirk and shiled? Warlock was mainly played defensively. That's why Corrupter the next class is able to use skins effectively. While Void Mage isn't. It's just following what it was mean't to be. A defensive style Mage.I know my classes. Also what they were back in the days. The game is going into AOE ofc thanks to the Fenrir Server. Who showed everyone what the power of AOE can do, but even though the devs are bad at balancing this game. All the AOEs introduced in Master class were well balanced in lacking CC.

                • #12
                  I use to play cardinal back when MC first came out and it was one of my favorite classes. Mainly cause of the versatility of being able to have good burst damage plus healing. I would really like to play cardinal again but compared to the asura mage classes cardinal isn't really that great of a chose. Corrupter is a better tank and vm dose high damage plus both classes have the best crowd control.

                  Iv seen this talked about a lot with oracle people want higher heals. This would be good fit for cardinal too not the best heals but better cause I know cardinal is a hybrid class so it's a dd/healer.

                  A cool idea for the cardinal skill Mass Restaration could be changed to a % of hp and even mp would be cool it could fix the cardinal mp problem. Maybe like 2% so with 100k hp would be doing around 2k tics or 1% hp and 2%mp. This could also be made to only work on players so that not to over lap the OverLord skill Mircalous Recovery.

                  The other heals are all really good skills they just need a boost on how much they heal so they could be closer to magus.

                  Artic Blast - is an awesome skill one but it's missing something I really think I agree with everyone asking if it could be made an AoE skill I really think that would bring cardinal up closer to vm/corr in aoe damage. Two really good things will come out of this it would help proc Vortex and it would work really well as an aoe cc. This would help cardinal to move away from danger while doing damage. The damage should also stay the same no nerf needed vm can hit 15-20m with chain of lightning and not saying cardinal should do the same because it's both a healer and dd but it should be able to do at least half of that.

                  Rainbow Field - I agree this skill needs to be made able to hit an unlimited number of enemies. The aoe is small so it already won't hit a lot of targets but at least if you can land it on a good number of mobs it won't be held back by a number of targets it can do damage.

                  Another idea for Rainbow Field would be to make it heal as well as do damage. This idea just kinda a random idea to add a little more to cardinal skills make it unique. It would only heal what is in side the aoe so would do damage to enemies and heal allys.

                  Binding ward needs a reworked so it activates more cause 2% is really low. It should be there to help cardinal get out of trouble.

                  Kenshin did a really good job of really pointing out what needs to be updated and make the cardinal a fun class to play again. So hope the GMs send all these great ideas to Gala.

                  Last edited by Anto; 05-12-17, 09:15 PM.


                  • Kenshin
                    Kenshin commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Ty Anto and yes I agree with what you suggested. The rainbow idea is interesting and would make sense. And mainly as you mentioned, Cardinal damage could be boosted to where it needs to be by simply adjusting a skill mechanic like AB. Reminder again and again of how much damage a VM can make....why would another mage dd class wouldn't be able to be at least near it?

                  • PrinnyOverlord
                    PrinnyOverlord commented
                    Editing a comment
                    That's a good idea for mass restoration. It would help those that don't have a high enough mattack in healing those high hp targets. But other targets that dont have 100k+ hp won't get healed for much.

                    With the magic attack that i have now I'm able to heal for about 2.3k-2.5k per tick, meaning that if it goes to 2% of max hp squishies get even less healing.

                    I belive that the normal restoration has % of hp on its card. If they gave that to the aoe version and increased the % of your magic needed to heal by a bit would be great.

                • #13
                  After setting up my cardinal with Ultimate Witch, Hector Knowledge, and Mephisto boss cards, as well as CC necklaces that provide -7% MP consumption, (total -37% MP consumption), it's been a lot easier to deal with MP costs. The MP costs for healing compared to how little they heal for, compared to other classes is still not good.

                  I invested in a Seraphic Remedy set, and combined with my Magical Deva belt, +22 helm, and DT buff, I'm able to heal up to 10 targets for around 29k per bounce. I think with a +24 helm it could be 11 targets. It made for some good healing in Devildom.


                  • #14
                    Hi @ all,
                    here my solution for Cardinal. But take care it is in german.
                    I hope u will understand it.