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  • Kenshin
    started a topic Ultimate Cardinal Fix

    Ultimate Cardinal Fix

    This will be a compilation of stuff I've said in previous topics. First off lets remind ourselves what the Bishop class is supposed to be about.

    Powerful spells and average healing ability. Cardinal just expands upon that. The Cardinal by definition is the Deva Mage DD class, which has some healing abilities due to it being Deva and coming from the Cleric class. Yet right now This DD mage damage is way inferior compared to VM, Corr, Magus.

    Problems with the class:

    - Too much MP consumption for what damage or heals skills provide. For example Rapid Healing costs around 2.7k MP to heal a low amount, while Magus heal consumes around 450 MP and heal x3, x4, or x5 times that. Yes Refreshing Triumph got adjusted and now helps sustain the MP drain, but why should Cardinal deviate and spend a TP on that skill as a FIX for somethings other classes don't suffer. Magus and Oracle get -XX% mp consumption without sacrificing any TP's. Lets not mention these 2 classes posses high mp recovery thanks to wisdom in the case of magus, and passives that aid mp recov greatly in the case of Oracle. Lets not mention DD skills are in the same boat. Shinning buster consumes almost 3K MP, Arctic Blast consumes 1K, Restoration consumes 2.5k+. Shinning Cross which deals low damage consumes 2.7k or so.

    - Vortex Magic just doesn't cut it as a power boosting skill. +25% damage is nothing compared to the insane near 100% or over 100% total VM get from Spirit of Fire, Tempest and Heed. Even if Cardinal bought x3 Pieces of PW for that skill, that would still be 75%. Magus gets access to insane amounts of M att, Vm gets access to increased M Att + buffs that add % of damage. Cardinal only relies on Vortex Magic which isn't as efficient, even with the full PW set.

    - Cold Bolt should activate Vortex Magic. It also should have a decreased cool time, around 5-10 seconds i'd say.

    - Rainbow Field needs to hit unlimited amount of targets to make it fair. Oracle Mass repentance hits an unlimited amount of targets and basically deals more damage. Rainbow Field has the advantage of being placed in the ground, but that might as well be a double edged sword because targets could just move out of the zone and avoid the damage. In comparison. Doesn't make sense how the Deva mage DD main AoE skill is way less efficient, than the Deva Healer.

    - Shinning Cross needs higher lvls in Cardinal to be able to be spammed, same as Oracle. How come Oracle has 2 constant AoEs, and Cardinal just has 1 inferior one?

    - Brisk Reprisal needs to activate while casting spells (heals or DD) (or at least dd) , not with a low chance when getting hit for such a low duration. It should work like Oracle's Angel's Deception. which adds Int and M att % when attacking and stacks 3 times. Id adjust Brisk Reprisal to increase Int % based and the Mov speed amount can stay the same, make buff last 2 minutes at least, and activate with a 5% chance or so when attacking or healing. I understand the concept was for the Cardinal to get boosted momentarily while in danger to survive, but as the game power demand has evolved, this skill simply became outdated and unfair.

    - Binding Ward should also activate while attacking. The Hold at high lvls lasts around 5-6 seconds. But only activates with a low low chance when getting hit. The concept was to escape easily a threat, but again this skill simply became outdated. basically Brisk reprisal and Binding Ward are not used if you play Cardinal in a way that you avoid getting hit to survive. I would make the hold activate when attacking with a greater chance but reduced duration, maybe 3-5 seconds tops. Or allow hold to last longer as lvl increases, and make the activation rate a bit lesser than the previous example. Deadeye with Silarion belt set simply gets permanent hold on a target, why can't a Mage DD have something similar, that won't even be as constant or permanent. Cardinal has a decent Crowd Control kit (not as reliable at times tho) and involves holding targets in place, like Frozen Snare and SnowSlide and Rock Pin, this change would be fitting for the class.

    - Divine Nova base CD is 10 minutes, at increased lvls it goes down to around 5 minutes or 6. This skill could use a lower cool down, maybe 1 minute and lvl decreases cool down by a little amount, or card does. Damage can stay as is. VM has similar AoE stun skills that can be casted way too often compared to Divine Nova.

    - Inner Light is simply outdated and way inferior compared to other classes. Take for example Void Mage Apostle of Darkness which increases M ignore greatly and the current Slayer Phase Blades. 5% M att and 10% M ignore simply doesn't cut it. Perhaps make it around 20% and 40% at lvl 2?

    Spear skills:

    - Heavens Spear simply does way inferior damage compared to Mighty Energy Beat, which is spam able, Heavenly Spear has a 20 secs cd or so. I would decrease cool down and increase damage to at least be greater than a Mighty Energy Beat. Cool down could be 10 seconds or 5.

    - Earth Spear has 45 seconds CD and inferior damage for just a stun. Id keep damage as it is but decrease cool down greatly. Cardinal has no 100% reliable Crowd control skills. Frozen snare just holds target but player can still attack. Rock pin and Snowslide seal but it can simply be broken and wasted if a undesired person or mob touches the target or a Dot hits it. Basically if you are attacking someone with any of your DoTs, including Arctic Blast, you cant use your 2 main CCs. Divine Nova as it stands is nowhere near useful as CC, due to long CD. Earth spear is the only stun which could be reliable if the cd was reduced. This would also aid the Oracle class that basically lacks CC's

    - Frost Spear could have a reduced cool down as well, considering is one of the skills that activate vortex magic and its attack speed debuff isn't that great. In fact, notice how if Cardinal wanted, he coudln't AoE targets with the benefit of Vortex Magic? Why can other classes simply output their max damage, and cardinal has to rely in 1 passive that is single target?. Frost Spear could be made into an AoE, this would allow cardinal to AoE, using Vortex Magic. Cool down would need to be very low tho.Was going to suggest Arctic Blast became an AoE similar to Poison Shot from Deadeye, but right now with its power boost, would be overkill.

    - Celestial Protection simply has a very long cool down and short duration. Feel like a wasted TP. Lets not mention that even if players wasted to spend a TP in it, it would mean they'd sacrifice their only mp recovery method which is Refreshing Triumph. Duration should be a bit longer and cool down could be 30 seconds to 1 minute. This would make a skilled Cardinal a essential kit for parties if he manages to time the Bosses devastating aoe attacks and protect the whole pt in a snap. It's already hard enough to learn all the bosses skills and when they cast them; would be nice to have that TP skill available to cast more often when needed, considering it will most likely be cast off time and protect nothing or get wasted anyways.

    - All the heals need a boost... big one. MP consumption should be decreased and the healing power should be greatly increased. As they stand now, pets heal better than a Deva class who has heals... Magus heals make cardinal heals look miserable. This would also fix one of the problems Oracle has, which are low low heals compared to Magus. Not saying Magus heals are too strong, even as they stand now they are sometimes not enough to save people who are tanking a boss; it's just Deva heals got completely forgotten and left behind.

    - Acid Swamp DoT deals such a low amount of damage that its barely noticeable it has one. The DoT should be increased power wise, and duration wise. Specially duration at least. Or Cd could simply be reduced some. Lets be honest, as it stands, maybe 3% of Cardinals use this skill.Maybe less, yeah, less. If Cold Bolt gets decreased CD, and considering Artctic blast Mov speed decrease, Acid Swamp is just not as useful. Maybe add additional effects like decreased attack speed and cast speed (could be big if it lasts a short amount)? decreased defenses by a % ( not too big) ?

    - Flash could have increased accuracy debuff. Maybe make it decrease P. and M. accuracy by a % instead?



    - Magical Training Mastery needs to be boosted in a similar way to Deadeye crossbow passives or Slayers weapon passives. It should increse M. Att by a %.


    - Cleric Weapon Mastery should add cast speed %. No Deva mage class uses melee weapons. This skill is outdated since 7 epics ago or so. The skill got increased lvls in 9.5. Now it would be nice if it was useful with this cast speed % boost.


    And now the Big one...EARTHQUAKE

    This skill is simply the most useless skill in Rappelz.

    it consumes around 2k MP...

    it's cool down is 20 minutes... (card and skill lvl does nothing to reduce it)

    Its duration is 10 seconds only...

    Its damage is basically non existent...

    debuff is just -30% mov speed..

    Before I talk about how the skill should be, lets watch this official Rappelz trailer which at the at the 15 seconds mark, shows a Deva character casting a Earthquake skill, which surprisingly shows perfectly how the skill should work and how I imagined it's fix it all this time.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCwb_k0zrqU


    This skill simply needs a complete rework, not just a graphics adjustment which doesn't even match the skill (ill get to that soon). I was thinking this skill could be the side partner of Rainbow Field as a spamable AoE. It should have a 5 second CD as well, the debuff can stay as it is or maybe increased to 75% for a 5 seconds duration, either as a effect on the ground or as a Debuff on each target that was hit. It would hit all targets in a frontal arc which will be placed in floor same as Rainbow Field, or simply be targeted. Something like this:



    This change would make perfect sense considering the Damage dealing and crowd controlling nature of the Cardinal. This version of Earthquake simply depicts what a Cardinal is; Protects the party by damaging and crowd controlling enemies.

    And now for the visual changes

    This is an Asura Mage casting a Fire skill ( Fire Field), looks great.


    This is a Deva Mage casting a Earth skill ( Earthquake)....... notice how they are exactly the same..... ? That's not good at all and makes no sense. ( please ignore the red markings i did in paint on this picture. They mention how some effects should stay but if the skill is to be reworked as explained above this wouldn't apply)( If skill isn't reworked as stated above, then the red markings should be taken into consideration).


    This is the old color scheme for earth skills, a mix of these or 1 of these, should be used instead of the ones in the picture above.



    This is the Naga skill Rising Stone, an Earth skill.... It actually looks like the Cardinal Earthquake should look. Not the circular effect around it but the stones that rise from the ground and move, provoking dust around themselves.



    Earthquake Conclusion:

    CD: 5 seconds
    MP consumption: 500-600
    Mov speed effect: 75%
    Effect duration: 5 seconds
    Target method: placed on ground
    Range: same as Rainbow Field
    Direction: frontal arc, damage and effect can instantly affect the targets in the arc area, or gradually, yet quickly affects those near to Cardinal first and finish with the farthest ones. Same as in the video.
    Coverage: from a 40 degrees to 180 degrees angle.
    Visual effects: Stones that rise and then descend and generate dust. From closest to farthest. Similar but larger red glowing( or maybe one of the green colors above?) earth cracked effect ( like in the current Earthquake skill) can be added. The dust effect can either be like the Rising Stone skill or a smoke effect similar to that made by Takin boss when he stomps the ground, or the Ice Breath White Dragon skill which provokes a frontal arc smoke like effect (just don't make it blue).




    I suggested in the past passives or active toggle skill to aid the defenses of Cardinal but i''ll scrap that considering the game is moving towards party oriented gameplay again and we don't want Cardinals to solo tank things, their passives and CC skills should be enough for survival if needed. (If the skills really do get adjusted).

    Divine Shield could be adjusted, but i'll mention it in the Oracle topic later on.



    Please take these things into consideration, thanks. (specially Earthquake one)
    Last edited by Kenshin; 04-12-17, 04:27 PM.

  • MrShow
    commented on 's reply
    ea and you must be very new to reading or very ignorant. Arctic Blast DOES damage. It's powerful. With a clean staff, an Arctic Blast can deal about 1million damage. Cardinal is one of the few classes that doesn't have to Face Tank bosses.
    Also i clearly mention not to say DMs since they are the original AOE classes of the game. Especially the one who takes the path to Void Mage. Do you know how to balance classes so they aren't busted? Do you know what happened to Restrain? It got nerfed! Why? It wasn't AOE but it was a CCing skill that dealt tons of damage. Players took 60k damage or more and were slowed by I believe 90%.
    Imagine a Cardinal with AOE arctic blast. Goes around with PK ON, press 1 to cast Arctic Blast. K, everyone is down -60k HP is slowed and can't really chase the Cardinal unless Ofc, they are ranged. This would be an absolute nightmare to classes who aren't range. Especially newbies. You can make Arctic Blast AOE, but the slow would either need to be removed or nerfed by a lot. Or it can get a boost in damage and kept with the same affects. Then Rainbow can be boosted to hit more targets, and slightly less CD, and maybe more damage since it's an AOE without ANY CC.
    Btw Hail of the underworld, has long CD, bad damage, an animation, and no CC... thank you for bringing it up.
    Root of mother nature... bad damage, but that's why it's an AOE CC.
    Armageddon, small hitbox, Damage isn't comparable to other AOEs.
    Smoke Bomb, I didn't know Slayers went that path, also didn't know it dealt damage. I would need to look that one up.
    Since u wanted to bring in the DMs in.
    Fear Trap, Lighting Trap, Steadfast Shadowflame don't really deal damage. Thank you for the ignorance.
    The corpse Traps, only one can cause petrification, that's why you can't really attack until it wores off, same with Magus AOE petry.
    Wide Windy Shackles No damage.
    Fog of Horror, no damage.
    Thunder Slayer, Bad damage, Small Range. NO CC
    Fire Storm, low damage no CC
    Meteor Shower, bad damage, has CC, Was NERFED, because the CC was strong.
    Heaven's Breaker, bad damage, has CC
    Lighting Field, Damage is ok now because before it was terrible, but only reduces ATK spd, NOT mov spd. Plus it has a radius. Move out of it to avoid it.
    Fire Field, Boosted, before bad. Doesn't CC.
    Dark Spiral, Why didn't this get boosted in Master Class you may ask?? It was a very power AOE that belong to the class with the most AOEs. Do you know why Warlock and Chaos Mage are different? Chaos Mage deals power AOE damage, but it lacks defense which includes CC. It has 2 aoe CC with decent damage and that's Splash Thunder and Heaven's Breaker and 1 CC AOE whcih deals no damage and was NERFed due to it being broken. Meteor Shower. Warlock on the other hand HAS multiple AOE CCs, but did you know back in the days, warlock was played using a dirk and shiled? Warlock was mainly played defensively. That's why Corrupter the next class is able to use skins effectively. While Void Mage isn't. It's just following what it was mean't to be. A defensive style Mage.I know my classes. Also what they were back in the days. The game is going into AOE ofc thanks to the Fenrir Server. Who showed everyone what the power of AOE can do, but even though the devs are bad at balancing this game. All the AOEs introduced in Master class were well balanced in lacking CC.

  • Kenshin
    commented on 's reply
    You must be very new to the game, you only mention 1 skill per class. VM has 2 aoe stuns, lighting field reduces mov speed and att speed. Lets not forget meteor shower. Corruptor has tons of aoes with cc. It seems it is you who doesn't know what CC means, if you did you would have listed them here. And no VM and Corr don't share ALL their aoe CCs. Deadeye has hail of the underworld. Magus has root of mother nature, slayer has smokebomb and crimson tubulence, templar has judgement of heaven, OL has armageddon. It's not about MC exclusive aoe cc skills, its about the aoe cc skills classes have as a whole. Its not like as soon as you turn MC you are unable to use your old skills. Go and learn about the game.

  • MrShow
    commented on 's reply
    Ok ill make sure to use Lighting Chain or Piercing Skulls to slow down bosses and solo them! Thank you for the tip!
    Earth and Fire = What CC?
    Mass Repetance = CC?
    Piercing Skull = Where?? tell me
    Chain Lighting = ???
    WarKahuna = its just in the list since You said "Magical"
    But we can bring in the other classes too?? right?
    Templar (Light of salvation) NO CC there, just reduces P.def.
    Mercenary (Doesn't really get an MC AOE skill) but, wild stream... No CC here
    Master Breeder (No)
    Beast Master (Again, No MC AOE) butt Wave Cut. NO CC
    Marksman (Nerfed AOE but it wasn't an MC skill to begin with) Steel Cage, NO CC
    Berserker - It gets an AOE at MC with CC, but guess what? It's weak compare to Arctic Blast. It's damage is very very low and Its AOE range is small. Oh, and caps at -50% mov speed max.
    DeadEye - It never had CCs to begin with, only ones with chances.
    Slayer - Twilight Strike I think? not even sure if that's the name, but small AOE range, no CC.

    So please tell me which MC Class got an AOE skill with CC???? (Incase you don't know what CC is.. Crowd Control. Stun, Mov. debuff, blind, etc.)
    I don't want to hear VM or Corrupter either.
    DM was the original AOE class, so this 2 class share that tree.
    Last edited by MrShow; 15-03-18, 02:06 AM. Reason: Forgot to reply to the part where It says "Many magical damage Aoe Skills have debuffs" when It failed to read what I said.

  • PrinnyOverlord
    commented on 's reply
    That's a good idea for mass restoration. It would help those that don't have a high enough mattack in healing those high hp targets. But other targets that dont have 100k+ hp won't get healed for much.

    With the magic attack that i have now I'm able to heal for about 2.3k-2.5k per tick, meaning that if it goes to 2% of max hp squishies get even less healing.

    I belive that the normal restoration has % of hp on its card. If they gave that to the aoe version and increased the % of your magic needed to heal by a bit would be great.

  • XERBERUS
    replied
    Hi @ all,
    here my solution for Cardinal. But take care it is in german.
    I hope u will understand it.


    http://forum.webzen.com/forum/de/rap...ncing-cardinal

    Leave a comment:


  • Imposter
    replied
    After setting up my cardinal with Ultimate Witch, Hector Knowledge, and Mephisto boss cards, as well as CC necklaces that provide -7% MP consumption, (total -37% MP consumption), it's been a lot easier to deal with MP costs. The MP costs for healing compared to how little they heal for, compared to other classes is still not good.

    I invested in a Seraphic Remedy set, and combined with my Magical Deva belt, +22 helm, and DT buff, I'm able to heal up to 10 targets for around 29k per bounce. I think with a +24 helm it could be 11 targets. It made for some good healing in Devildom.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kenshin
    commented on 's reply
    Ty Anto and yes I agree with what you suggested. The rainbow idea is interesting and would make sense. And mainly as you mentioned, Cardinal damage could be boosted to where it needs to be by simply adjusting a skill mechanic like AB. Reminder again and again of how much damage a VM can make....why would another mage dd class wouldn't be able to be at least near it?

  • Anto
    replied
    I use to play cardinal back when MC first came out and it was one of my favorite classes. Mainly cause of the versatility of being able to have good burst damage plus healing. I would really like to play cardinal again but compared to the asura mage classes cardinal isn't really that great of a chose. Corrupter is a better tank and vm dose high damage plus both classes have the best crowd control.

    Iv seen this talked about a lot with oracle people want higher heals. This would be good fit for cardinal too not the best heals but better cause I know cardinal is a hybrid class so it's a dd/healer.

    A cool idea for the cardinal skill Mass Restaration could be changed to a % of hp and even mp would be cool it could fix the cardinal mp problem. Maybe like 2% so with 100k hp would be doing around 2k tics or 1% hp and 2%mp. This could also be made to only work on players so that not to over lap the OverLord skill Mircalous Recovery.

    The other heals are all really good skills they just need a boost on how much they heal so they could be closer to magus.

    Artic Blast - is an awesome skill one but it's missing something I really think I agree with everyone asking if it could be made an AoE skill I really think that would bring cardinal up closer to vm/corr in aoe damage. Two really good things will come out of this it would help proc Vortex and it would work really well as an aoe cc. This would help cardinal to move away from danger while doing damage. The damage should also stay the same no nerf needed vm can hit 15-20m with chain of lightning and not saying cardinal should do the same because it's both a healer and dd but it should be able to do at least half of that.

    Rainbow Field - I agree this skill needs to be made able to hit an unlimited number of enemies. The aoe is small so it already won't hit a lot of targets but at least if you can land it on a good number of mobs it won't be held back by a number of targets it can do damage.

    Another idea for Rainbow Field would be to make it heal as well as do damage. This idea just kinda a random idea to add a little more to cardinal skills make it unique. It would only heal what is in side the aoe so would do damage to enemies and heal allys.

    Binding ward needs a reworked so it activates more cause 2% is really low. It should be there to help cardinal get out of trouble.

    Kenshin did a really good job of really pointing out what needs to be updated and make the cardinal a fun class to play again. So hope the GMs send all these great ideas to Gala.









    Last edited by Anto; 05-12-17, 09:15 PM.

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  • Kenshin
    commented on 's reply
    Wrong, many magical damage AoE skills have debuff effects.Not going to make a list because it would be too long, but take a closer look at VM, Corruptor, Magus and OL.

  • MrShow
    replied
    I agree with rainbow getting improved into hitting more targets and damage wise but Arctic Blast should either get a damage boost or leave as it is. It doesn’t need to be AOE. It’s already very useful enough. It’s literally the best CC for bosses. All other AOEs that Master Classes get don’t have any CC effect. What comes close to AB is restrain. Which is also single target. I actually like the CDs on VoidMage, Corruptor, Oracle’s AOEs. The most dumbest AoEs CDs is wildstream. Literally just seeing Mercs spamming 1 all Party not caring about their Tank role.

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  • Imposter
    replied
    I just remembered that the Death Tyrants on VI can do AoE Frozen Snare and Cold Bolt AoE. I think that making this change would be easy. Instead of Cold Bolt AoE, let Frost Spear be the AoE as Kenshin suggested.

    Leave a comment:


  • TH4TF4VSUM1
    replied
    I agree a lot with most of the comments made. I have Played a long time as my main a cardi and I hate we were nerfd. before we could help ourselves do damage and now i count on some1 else to do things i used to be able to do alone. now i do understand that we are playing a MMO and parties are a big part of that but I personally would like to be able to do dailys alone then go party and also be more helpful than my buffs in these parties. i agree mp shortage on most skills is a problem, trying to keep sum1 elsee mana scrolled and healing does not work in our benefit. the last thing i'd like to comment on is for all classes actually, i'd like to see a hot key made to switch between your pets in formation. not only is this helpful for monarch but it is also useful for healing/saving urself, some1 else or your pet.

    Leave a comment:


  • Siriner
    commented on 's reply
    Not sure, since there is no information on that, but I can tell you that they did started working on Berserker, so maybe 1 class every 2 weeks?

  • Wordsareweapons
    replied
    Any idea when/if any changes will take place?

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