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Dungeon PK - Judgement Time Part 2

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  • Dungeon PK - Judgement Time Part 2









    Citizens of Gaia,

    We have calculated the original poll results from here.

    After removing all duplicated votes from alternate accounts, the result was:
    Keep PK enabled in dungeons: 30%
    PK to be disallowed in dungeons: 70%

    However... We have been presented with another option, an option which we did not have when the discussions with Gala originally took place. Therefore, it was not present in the original poll as a 3rd option.
    Due to this, and some of the replies in the original topic of people being reluctant to vote for it to be disallowed, we felt it would be best to create a new poll in which we place the previous poll's winning option against this new option.

    Therefore, here are the two options:
    Option 1:
    • PK to be disallowed in dungeons
      - This is the same as before: first offenders will always be given a fair warning. However, we're not psychic, and victims would need to submit a ticket. A video would not be required, just a screenshot of the offender. If the offender continues to PK in a dungeon after a warning, increased suspensions will be given.
    Option 2:
    • Increase the Slaughter level from 10 to 15 - this will match the party EXP level range.
    • Increase the morality cost of PKing - both a normal PK and Slaughter.
    • Decrease PvP damage further.
    • Tougher rules and enforcement on PK harassment.
      - Specifically, but not limited to: repeated use of God Mother Fairy's Bottles to wipe a party on a regular basis.
    The poll shall be open from today, 29th June, until 6th July.

    Discussions of the poll are encouraged, as all posts are read by the Rappelz team. However, we ask that you keep it civilised.

    Kind regards,
    Your Rappelz team.
    154
    Option 1
    78.57%
    121
    Option 2
    21.43%
    33

    The poll is expired.



  • #2
    Have you looked at how much people donate to the alter? Some how I do not think your "increase" of the morality cost would make the slightest difference to the the PK'ers they will just donate more stones/scrolls to the alter.

    Comment


    • #3
      "here" = err 404

      1.) video + ticked = warning
      2.) PK wars

      i.e. you will do NOTHING.





      Make roa instanced.
      Last edited by Hunter; 29-06-17, 04:20 PM.

      Comment


      • Nazgul
        Nazgul commented
        Editing a comment
        The link should be fixed now.

        1) First time warning, going forward increased suspensions.
        2) The most important point is more support offered.

        IE We will do something.

        RoA being instanced is not an option.

        Regards,
        Nazgul

      • Hunter
        Hunter commented
        Editing a comment
        OK, i just got an expansion pack another_game, no problem.

      • Whirlwind
        Whirlwind commented
        Editing a comment
        "RoA being instanced is not an option"......so where exactly are all the 173+ people supposed to farm next epic....seeing as there is job level 100 on KTS? PW is not really an option considering how much the entrance tickets costs and how many jps will be needed per job level (based on how much lvl 60 already needs) and for most players RoA is better exp anyways. How are we supposed to all fit in there? The new dungeon seems to be mostly just for farming new gears, so there will be so much drama and space issues in RoA ..... instanced dungeons would make everything much easier...everyone has space and no harassment/pking/ksing issues.

    • #4
      Despite i've voted for Option 1. Some points on option 2 are interesting, like do something about bottling in pvp and MOSTLY IMPORTANT reducing the damage in pvp (but like, A LOT) would make it a lot funnier, it would force you to use CC to kill someone and not just fireball and run away, yea thats how it is nowadays. I don't know, i used to enjoy pvp a lot before, but now it's just 1 shot everywhere.
      "I 1shot you, you bottle and 1 shot me, i bottle and 1 shot you, you bottle and 1shot me..." not funny at all D:

      Comment


      • #5
        First of all, thank u for taking our concerns into account. I'm personally leaning towards #1.

        Before voting though, I hope you can give us more details on the second option. For example, using GMFBs isn't the only way people PK, on Undine it's almost always just repetitive returning over and over. Would that be considered as harassment? Would players who KS in order to make you PKon be punished too?
        How much would the damage reduction be?
        Increasing slaughter level would be pointless, as most PKers are 170-172, pking players in ROA. Increasing morality is also futile for the same reasons TrevP mentioned.
        The entire option is a little vague, which gives CS the ability to ignore probably most PK reports, just as they did untill now.
        It's a valid attempt at making a fair-er, more balanced system, but I won't vote for it until it's cleared up.

        Moreover, in the meantime, what do we do about PKers? We were pked on 75% of dps last night, and it's bound to get worse this weekend. Can we get the result of the first poll implemented for the time being?
        Last edited by Hitsuyga; 29-06-17, 05:00 PM.
        My youtube channel

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by WhoIsThis View Post
          Despite i've voted for Option 1. Some points on option 2 are interesting, like do something about bottling in pvp and MOSTLY IMPORTANT reducing the damage in pvp (but like, A LOT) would make it a lot funnier, it would force you to use CC to kill someone and not just fireball and run away, yea thats how it is nowadays. I don't know, i used to enjoy pvp a lot before, but now it's just 1 shot everywhere.
          "I 1shot you, you bottle and 1 shot me, i bottle and 1 shot you, you bottle and 1shot me..." not funny at all D:
          Yeah damage reduction would make PVP more fun as it would maybe take longer to stun/spam someone to death. But this is NOT pvp, that is broken and will sadly never be balanced correctly, this is about PK

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by TrevP View Post
            Have you looked at how much people donate to the alter? Some how I do not think your "increase" of the morality cost would make the slightest difference to the the PK'ers they will just donate more stones/scrolls to the alter.
            Originally posted by Hitsuyga View Post
            First of all, thank u for taking our concerns into account. I'm personally leaning towards #1.

            Before voting though, I hope you can give us more details on the second option. For example, using GMFBs isn't the only way people PK, on Undine it's almost always just repetitive returning over and over. Would that be considered as harassment? Would players who KS in order to make you PKon be punished too?
            How much would the damage reduction be?
            Increasing slaughter level would be pointless, as most PKers are 170-172, pking players in ROA. Increasing morality is also futile for the same reasons TrevP mentioned.
            The entire option is a little vague, which gives CS the ability to ignore probably most PK reports, just as they did untill now.
            It's a valid attempt at making a fair-er, more balanced system, but I won't vote for it until it's cleared up.

            Moreover, in the meantime, what do we do about PKers? We were pked on 75% of dps last night, and it's bound to get worse this weekend. Can we get the result of the first poll implemented for the time being?
            Correct. We understand this is not the only way, however each time a player will be reported and we deem it inappropriate or borderline their account will be flagged. This is why it was specified it's not just limited to the GMFB's being used.
            KSing isn't allowed as it stands. If it happens, report it. But again, it's not a 1 time ban offence.
            If you want to ask for more examples, I shall do my best to answer them the best I can.

            As was experienced last time, there is no magic number for the PvP damage reduction, I know it was changed more than once as the reduction was too high to begin with. This would be something that we'd need feedback from the community on, on a regular basis if needed.
            The slaughter level alone is not going to solve the issue, nor will it do that much, it's a collective amount of measures. However, a slaughter costs twice as much as a normal PK. Since players can legitimately enter RoA at 160+ now, it's not just about defending the PvE players, but trying to find the correct balance.

            Just like the PvP damage reduction, there isn't a perfect number of what to increase the cost of PKing by.
            Please correct me if I am wrong, however the immorality cost has never been updated.
            Collecting money 9-10 years ago was far harder and you came across red named people on a regular basis. We would try and find a balance again, but would need community feedback from when this is implemented. We would be naive to this that the first change would be the perfect amount, no matter how much we think about it.

            For PKers in the meantime, please report them if they are severely impacting your gameplay.

            There is no perfect solution which we can offer and I can only apologise.

            Regards,
            Nazgul

            Comment


            • #8
              voted for #1 but i think decreasing pvp damage further would still be a good idea (I can't see why we couldn't have that in option 1 as well)
              I'm not against pvp (just don't really enjoy it in rappelz), it could help balance pvp in general to reduce pvp damage and maybe make pvp more fun even for people who don't focus on that part of the game.

              Comment


              • #9
                I play daily on Undine and I refuse to vote between two terrible options. You are taking this game in the wrong direction and will only further reduce the server populations. There is no way you can tell who the alts are that voted multiple times when they are behind VPN. Stop making up rules and keep the game the way Gala intended it to be.

                Comment


                • (MOD)Alexander
                  (MOD)Alexander commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Summary: "let me keep ruining the game for others, its the one thing i enjoy"?

                  Also regarding your post in the previous poll: it isn't "political correctness" to vote against a thing you hate happening. It is, however, pretty lame to make an anonymous forum account with no way at all to determine who you are in the game in order to make bold statements about how it's really bad to make a change most players want.

                  Especially when you're so much in favor of non-politically correct pking everywhere... scared you might end up the victim?
                  Last edited by (MOD)Alexander; 29-06-17, 06:38 PM.

              • #10
                So we have option 1, which is same as was in poll last 2 weeks.

                orrrrrrrrrrr

                Option 2 which has several vague plans one of which is to basically enforce rules that have been already in place for years. So we are supposed to now trust that the rules would be enforced ? I have no problem with any of the pvp options being thrown out as ideas. By all means, make changes to make pvp more challenging, fun, What I have trouble with here is the pk harassment. No one should have to hour after hour, day after day month after month deal with pkers hitting parties repeatedly. We sent in video, ss as required and to this day not sure if there was a ban for pk harassment because there is no notification, which is fine but if no bans were given for pk harassment with all the proof we have sent in then how are we to believe now that things will be different now ?

                We just did a poll for 2 weeks with limited options, people voted only to again have to vote. I am all for making changes to improve things but as things are we again have at least another week of nonsense then another 2-3 days for vote verification. Nazgul said if pkers are severely impacting game play to sent tickets so guess I will continue that then, and trust something will be done now ? I am frustrated here. I have reported stuff hours and hours of pkers repeatedly coming to my parties , sometimes bottling sometimes not either way it is hour of them hitting us. Takes about 2 min for them to town and run back. How is that not harassment?

                Also why are devs willing to tweak damage on pvp,but can't make ROA instanced or fix it so ppl cant pkon there ? I know they made it so you can't pkon in witch dungeon, it wasn't always like that.
                Last edited by Momba; 29-06-17, 07:29 PM.

                Comment


                • Fiberoid
                  Fiberoid commented
                  Editing a comment
                  The devs probably are reluctant to ban it because they reckon they might have too much work to do against the backlog of overdue tweaks from many years ago lol and also perhaps they think Pkers are the only players that spend on cs which are also an urban legend.

                  I knew Faith guild from the time I played in Tortus server and they have withstood so many guild wars and always emerged victorious no matter how arduous they were submerged in that battle. So come on ye old faithfuls' keep on fighting the good fight dont give up at all.

                  Why are you pkers going after Faith guild so much? From what i observed for so many years, they never disturb other players or offend others unless provoked lol

              • #11
                Ok our party was just pked 40 minutes in roa by Alitiz.

                You can not make this game civilised, bye.

                Comment


                • #12
                  Thanks for the reply. I'd just like to echo Momba and Hunter's disappointment.

                  My main worry is time. How much time would it take to get someone banned for KS, for pking, for the new rules to get implemented. After the last poll we thought we were done, but now it's like nothing has changed. Players are still PKing. I just did 2 hours in ROA, had to deal with 2 PKers and a group of KSers. Another DP in lobby also dealt with PKers, they disbanded early. All this in 2 hours.
                  Webzen will regret taking this much time and losing yet another party maker. There's only a few left on Undine.

                  Option 2 says players that spam-GMFB to wipe parties will be punished. But that was ALREADY defined as harassment, and wasn't dealt as such. Frankly I don't trust expanding the new rules will help, I don't trust the CS will pull it's weight. The PvP changes, I don't feel, like it should be included in a poll about changes to pk rules. Now that I think about it, #2 seems like an unnecessary way to postpone the result of the 1st poll.

                  For that reason i'll vote for the less-flexible, but hopefully quicker option #1.
                  It just seems fair that for the meantime we get the result of the first poll. Surely we deserve that at the very least.
                  Last edited by Hitsuyga; 29-06-17, 08:42 PM.
                  My youtube channel

                  Comment


                  • Hitsuyga
                    Hitsuyga commented
                    Editing a comment
                    At this very moment, the only people in ROA are PKers. Think about that for a second..

                • #13
                  Sry, I dont understand the first option very well ...could u clarify it please. That says PK to be disallowed BUT this immediately says "If the offender continues to PK in a dungeon"

                  My question is.. how can some1 pk inside a dungeon if PK will be disallowed?

                  pd: maybe its cuz english is not my native language lol

                  Comment


                  • Momba
                    Momba commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I agree it might be confusing. They say they can't or wont disable pk in dungeons. But they will make a new rule. That if you pkon in dungeon they will first issue warning then incrementally ban. My issue with this is there are already rules for pk harassment that haven't been enforced, so I feel unless they disable pk in dungeons people will still have to deal with this.

                    To answer your question it would just be a rule change. They say they can't or won't disable pk in all dungeons.

                • #14
                  Publisher, this pking in ROA dungeon have become the bane of most players that want to level peacefully with their friends or guildmates if option 1 is the most popular choice, then follow through and choose it for the benefit of many players that ACTUALLY really like this game but are turned off by all these childish player kill situation. For starters, it may not be a popular choice for the pkers, but they are known to be adaptable so they will find a way to still PK We suggest to tackle one problem at a time and cross that bridge when you need to. Right now, each time you run an exp event, many players are not able to enjoy the event as INTENDED.

                  ROA dungeon gives good exp, that is why a lot of players flock to that dungeon, another idea is to increase the xp kill of the mobs in other dungeons so that those dungeons dont become the white elephants they are today if the banning of pk in dungeon is implemented. Instancing the dungeons were by far the best idea but since ROA cannot be instanced, then just ban the dungeon pk.If you can come up with enhanced items so much, I'm positive boosting the xp kill of the mobs or activating the banning is not that hard.
                  It is about time a dedicated higher up revisit the content of the game rather than put it on the wishlist which is already backlogged since the birth of this game lol. This would at least help with the crowd control for ROA when it becomes so packed with levellers. Just my two cents worth here

                  To appease the pkers, maybe the publisher can look at how they can improve the Arena aspect of the game, perhaps boost xp, dangle some carrots for the pkers or potential pvpers to enjoy PVP instead of logging in, getting swayed by boredom or frivolous challenges on world chat and start harassing innocent players lol. Money is important to sustain this game but you also need to look on how you can retain players. If this game can survive this long it surely is telling you something about the pull factor of this game right?

                  Comment


                  • #15
                    After reading the comments and talking to people I would like to change my vote from option 2 to option 1. And it would be far better if the dungeons would just be like towns where you can't turn pk on. This would save the CS a lot of work in the long run.

                    As for the pvp, the damage reduction might be a good start but the problems with pvp go deeper then that, it pretty much got screwed up since the enhancement bonusses got introduced. And being able to go to +25 didn't help in that respect but that's another topic.

                    Comment


                    • Spazz
                      Spazz commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Disallowed, not Disable. Huge difference.
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