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[Suggestion] Remove Bot Detector and change the current trading system

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  • [Suggestion] Remove Bot Detector and change the current trading system

    This suggestion may not be welcomed by the community but I believe its long-term advantages outweigh its disadvantages.

    We know that the source of income for gold sellers is real money. And they get that by trading in-game gold with real money. But to complete such transaction, they need to use either direct in-game contact (player to player) or simply via mailbox system.

    My suggestion is to permanently disable player-to-player and mailbox trade. Instead, players will rely on the Trading Office but it will be only Trade item for gold. Mailbox will only be used to retrieve items that are canceled or not sold.

    Now, let's discuss this new anti-gold selling disadvantages and advantages

    Cons:

    -Players will not be able to trade items/gold directly
    -Players will not have a choice to trade items that they want
    -Players will rely only on gold instead of trading an item for an item

    Pros:

    -Gold sellers will have no way to directly sell gold to an intended player
    -Gold buyers will only rely on getting gold via conventional methods (farming gold/trading items for gold) or buying Gold Coffer (This contains a random amount of gold)
    -Limit overpricing items and price inflation (players will no longer try to sell items for an imaginary price. The current maximum limit is 1 billion but there are reports that players ask for more than that especially when they sell unique stuff)
    -Gold farmers/sellers will be hopefully eliminated (Thus, bot detector won't be needed)

    In addition to this suggestion, the current trading system needs to be tweaked a bit. Since players will not be able to trade items directly and that will affect trading of soul/gear sets. My suggestion is to allow players to pack their stuff in a 6-slot chest. And if a player wants more slots for packing, a 12-24 slot chest can be purchased in the Cash Shop, and it will be useful for players who want to sell more stuff in one package.

    The Players will also need a small Cash Shop (6 slots) inventory since they won't be able to transfer items to their alts. Cash Warehouse can still be purchased to expand it. It's just the same concept as the normal Warehouse. Also, trading fees should be removed from this game. That's one reason why players prefer to sell items by player-to-player instead of using the Trading Office.


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  • #2
    Looks like a nice feature, same concept as the other online game i know. Sure enough there are no gold sellers there.

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    • #3
      Allow me to put your suggestion into waste through a few simple steps :
      Step 1 : Players pay real cash for the Gold Seller.
      Step 2 : Those players put on TO something at an "imaginary" price, i.e silver chunk x 1 = 500m
      Step 3 : The Gold Seller buys that piece of silver chunk. (Yes, they will lost 10% gold but I'm sure the Gold Sellers will come up with a price that benefit them)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Axorc View Post
        Allow me to put your suggestion into waste through a few simple steps :
        Step 1 : Players pay real cash for the Gold Seller.
        Step 2 : Those players put on TO something at an "imaginary" price, i.e silver chunk x 1 = 500m
        Step 3 : The Gold Seller buys that piece of silver chunk. (Yes, they will lost 10% gold but I'm sure the Gold Sellers will come up with a price that benefit them)

        If that really what happens, it actually makes me laugh but I won't deny that it's a wicked way to trade an item for a big load of gold. Apparently, the only way to get rid of this is to make the price regulated by the game, just like when you buy from NPC. That way, a silver chunk x 1 will be always sold for e.g. 5 gold, no less, no more. I believe that's the only way to limit abusing Trading Office. But this will also mean that Cash Shop items will have their fixed tag price in gold. Not sure if this is a good move though.


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        • #5
          As longer there are people to buy gold , the goldbot companies will find a way to sell gold. Your suggestion not going to be solution, the goldbots will charge 10 % more because of trading office fee. The diffculties going to be on the players , not on the goldbots. The only way to stop them is to keep them away from the game.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by BRERO View Post
            As longer there are people to buy gold , the goldbot companies will find a way to sell gold. Your suggestion not going to be solution, the goldbots will charge 10 % more because of trading office fee. The diffculties going to be on the players , not on the goldbots. The only way to stop them is to keep them away from the game.

            Well, the Bot Detector hasn't solved the problem. They have even kept increasing more than before as Webzen thought they could take it easy with the Bot Detector is active. Yet it failed to combat gold farmers. I'm still thinking of the other solution which is making the prices fixed as if you are buying from NPCs. I know there won't be freedom in earning gold the amount you want, but that should somehow make gold buyers refrain from thinking that they can sell silly items for higher price just to get gold from gold sellers. But this should be implemented along with the above suggestion I made earlier. Otherwise, we'll have to come up with better ideas that have absolute effect on combating gold sellers and their bots.


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            • #7
              I believe that gaining 30sec ~1min iframe buff while Bot Detector appears in dungeons is a good and simple solution, as someone said. Also, I think that Bot Detector should appear at random time when the players are in villages so that the bots won't be able to predict the Detectors.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Axorc View Post
                I believe that gaining 30sec ~1min iframe buff while Bot Detector appears in dungeons is a good and simple solution, as someone said. Also, I think that Bot Detector should appear at random time when the players are in villages so that the bots won't be able to predict the Detectors.
                I disagree with the bot detector randomly appearing in villages, what about legit afk characters then?
                I do agree on the simple solution of giving an iframe buff the moment the bot detector appears, or better yet, at the beginning of the dungeons where it is supposed to be appearing.

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                • #9
                  rename thread to [Suggestion] Kill this game


                  Actual suggestion: use the bot system described in this paper https://iseclab.org/papers/botdetection-article.pdf

                  If you start monitoring pathing, it's gonna take quite some programming effort to make a bot who does it randomly enough to fool the system.
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                  "Quote." -Person

                  +15 battle maiden tower F1-F40 speedrun:
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2N9IM7pgnI

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AntiGravity View Post
                    rename thread to [Suggestion] Kill this game Actual suggestion: use the bot system described in this paper https://iseclab.org/papers/botdetection-article.pdf If you start monitoring pathing, it's gonna take quite some programming effort to make a bot who does it randomly enough to fool the system.
                    What if the devs made mobs in dungeons appear in different spots and numbers everytime a player enter. I mean, the could change the pattern of how they appear in one area and also with varying numbers. Bots use a fixed path and is programmed to kill mobs from predetermined locations. But if we randomize the way mobs appear in terms of locations and number, it could confuse the bots and can get them killed by them.


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                    • AntiGravity
                      AntiGravity commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I've never actually seen footage of how the current bots clear dungeons, but if that's the way they do it, randomly moving the "key red marked" mob would prevent them from moving forward in the stage.

                  • #11
                    Idea:
                    The goal would be to write the captcha text. A black box appears on screen, your mouse gets centered in the middle with white space around it(and possibly parts of text visible), and moving the mouse reveals other parts of the text (and hides the parts where your mouse was before).
                    Most preferably using some "handwritten" looking fonts.
                    I would say that would make it pretty hard to create software which would auto-decipher it.
                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    "Quote." -Person

                    +15 battle maiden tower F1-F40 speedrun:
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2N9IM7pgnI

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                  • #12
                    Originally posted by Seraphiel View Post


                    Well, the Bot Detector hasn't solved the problem. They have even kept increasing more than before as Webzen thought they could take it easy with the Bot Detector is active. Yet it failed to combat gold farmers. I'm still thinking of the other solution which is making the prices fixed as if you are buying from NPCs. I know there won't be freedom in earning gold the amount you want, but that should somehow make gold buyers refrain from thinking that they can sell silly items for higher price just to get gold from gold sellers. But this should be implemented along with the above suggestion I made earlier. Otherwise, we'll have to come up with better ideas that have absolute effect on combating gold sellers and their bots.
                    This is some hardcore restrictions. I don't belive they going to work in free economy model witch is the model in every mmorpg. You can't go for fixed prices , when the inflation or deflation won't stay fixed , even without goldbot the prices will be in some ranges ( which is the most close to perfect condition for a fixed prices). What I'm trying to say is , Webzen can not control the economy of the game without controling the goldbot.

                    I don't want you to think I'm trying to argue with you, I appreciate the effort you put in your suggestion, but you have to understand how the ingame economy works to come with the best suggestion/solution. IMO the only solution is to get rid of the goldbot, not a restrictions to affect players along with the goldbots.

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                    • #13
                      Originally posted by BRERO View Post

                      This is some hardcore restrictions. I don't belive they going to work in free economy model witch is the model in every mmorpg. You can't go for fixed prices , when the inflation or deflation won't stay fixed , even without goldbot the prices will be in some ranges ( which is the most close to perfect condition for a fixed prices). What I'm trying to say is , Webzen can not control the economy of the game without controling the goldbot.

                      I don't want you to think I'm trying to argue with you, I appreciate the effort you put in your suggestion, but you have to understand how the ingame economy works to come with the best suggestion/solution. IMO the only solution is to get rid of the goldbot, not a restrictions to affect players along with the goldbots.

                      Thank you for your input, BRERO. I'm actually not totally in agreement with that kind of restriction either. It's just that I want to find a final solution for all this mess that is caused by gold bots. Even monthly subscription based games suffer from this issue.

                      Some players have become greedy and started to increase the sale of some items (mostly Cash items) more than before. Take the simplest example, Magic Primer. It used to be sold for 2-3m per 100 Primers when I first played the game, then it was increased to 4-5m. Later on, during Sacred Enhance Stone event, it jumped to around 8-11m. But it came down to 6-7m after that event and that's the average price so far in US server. That surely was triggered by gold buyers who support gold sellers. Hence, we need to eliminate any kind of trading method that connect gold buyers with gold sellers for the betterment of economy.

                      It seems there's no way to block them no matter what effort is done against them. They initially starts as normal players until they operate their machines to work for them. The latter seem more complicated to counter. I know that Webzen is trying to slow down gold bots rather than put an end to them. But that's not considered as a solution. We are dealing with many bots; not just one. And they are scattered all round there servers. They are like breeding in every minute to produce more bots.

                      That's why I suggested to make trading regulated by Webzen. I mean, just like when you play a regular RPG and you buy stuff from NPCs with a fixed price. But we act as those NPCs instead. I believe that won't be a problem in the long run since it will be some kind of a new system to ensure that players are satisfied even if it takes the freedom of deciding the price of in-game items. However, the prices should be adjusted to a reasonable range; not like what C9 NPCs sell at this moment, which is absurdly expensive even for common grade items.

                      Also, there should be some kind of weekly bonuses, gold events or even accessories with gold bonus that increase the amount of gold if this system is implemented. That's a good thing to be incorporated with this new system I suggested earlier. Cash Shoppers don't usually like spending more time in farming, and that's a good balance for non-paying customers. Cash Shoppers will still use the lazy method, buying Gold Coffers which Webzen still have a problem trying to advertise for this item in the Cash Shop.


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